Episode 11

Special Episode on Special Education

This week, I focus on the significant challenges within special education. I cover recently published inspectorate findings, testimonies from school principals, and a detailed report by a group of parents on the deteriorating state of special education. I discuss the lack of adequate resources, bureaucratic hurdles, and the ineffectiveness of new initiatives, emphasizing the dire need for proper support and funding. I also and, finally, how a 13-year-old girl is most likely to be the one to save us.

Transcript
Speaker:

MacBook Pro Microphone & FaceTime HD Camera-4:

Hello?

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Hello.

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You're very welcome to if I were the

minister for education from anseo.net, a

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regular podcast, where I look at the Irish

primary education system and let you know

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what I would do if I were the minister

for education, this is Simon Lewis.

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MacBook Pro Microphone & FaceTime HD Camera-6:

On this week's show in a fortnight

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where the inspectorate publish

their findings on special education.

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How a group of principals had to go to

the Dole to tell the politicians about

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how it's crumbling and how a group of

parents have published a massive reports.

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On the, a crumbling nature of comms.

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I delve into the world of special

education with a special episode

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on us and how we might all be

saved by a 13 year old girl.

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If you are interested in subscribing

to this podcast and I would love you to

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do so you can do so on Spotify, apple

podcasts, Google podcasts, or your

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favorite app, whatever that might be.

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And you can also watch along on

my YouTube channel anseo.net and

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you can click on subscribe and get

received notifications for that.

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It really helps other

people to find the podcast.

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And I hope this one will be in particular

of interest to any teacher, any parent

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or anyone involved in education.

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If we're looking at special

education, If you are also interested

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in some of my other thoughts in

education, I run a newsletter.

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Where I talk about some other thoughts

on the primary education system such

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as this week, I'll be looking at

Doreena Allen's quest for cooking.

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In schools that she does every year.

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I'll also be looking at some exceptional

posts on Twitter and there's some

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mini CPD at the end of every episode.

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And this week I will be looking at an end

of year countdown game using chat GPT.

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You can read all of my thoughts on the

education system on my Feedly account,

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where I have a number of stories I found

interesting in the various media sources.

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And as this is a special

episode about special education.

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I also want to alert you to an interview

that I did in the last couple of weeks

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with Debbie O'Neill, who is the principal

of a special school that school owned

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in Kremlin in Dublin, where I talked

to her about special education in

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her school and her own thoughts about

the way special education is going.

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I'm just going to play a very short

clip of that to set the scene.

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Speaker 3: you know, it's the

amazing staff that we have here,

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but we are absolute experts in

mild general learning disability.

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We are excellent at the retention

that we have here of children.

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The achievements that we have,

you know, the way that our kids

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will do their leaving Certified

and go on to the world of work.

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I mean, mild schools in general,

there was a survey done a little while

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ago, and it's, it's 70 percent of

children who come from mild schools

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have a job, whereas the average.

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The national average of people who

hold down the job with an intellectual

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disability is six percent, you know,

so we're doing things enormously

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well and we need to be listened to.

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You can listen to the entire interview

with me on Debbie as a separate podcast

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episode, which you can find on anseo.net

or on your favorite podcasting platform.

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MacBook Pro Microphone & FaceTime HD Camera-6:

So without further ado,

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let's get on with things.

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I'm going to start off with this

article that has nothing to do with

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special education, but I want to

set the scene and because after

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spending millions on the school.

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Miele scheme.

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And I would where every child in

the country by:

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a hot meal in school every day.

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There are questions over there.

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School lunches.

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Nutritional value.

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And.

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Apart from the fact that I

know I need to say this apart

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from the fact that this scheme.

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Is every other scheme, the

department of education.

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Put in to schools where every school

has to source its own provider.

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And we see this with everything that

comes into school, whether it's your

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insurance policy, whether it's nerdy,

the bus transports, whether it's.

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Nobody seems to organize anything

centrally and everything is done

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privately by every single school.

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So every school, I don't know if

people know this and I'm sure they do.

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If they hear this podcast,

Our public education system.

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Is really strange because every

school is actually a private

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school funded by public money.

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And this is why we don't actually have

a free education, technically a free

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education system and the department

of education provide for education.

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And because of that, they can't

have these wide ranging initiatives.

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So for example, with the school

lunch scheme, every school has to

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try and find their own provider.

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And those providers have to

provide to individual schools.

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There's no sort of em system

where a lot of schools come

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together to get their hot lunches.

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It's all individual and the can't

even come together really on.

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Unless there's some

schemes I don't know about.

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It's the same with everything.

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School book scheme, for

example, every school has to

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source their own school books.

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There isn't a centralized version of that.

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And no two schools are the

same, but anyway, The reason I

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bring this up is not for that.

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The reason is that the department

of education has said after hearing

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reports that the nutritional values

in these lunches, aren't up to scratch

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the responsibility for monitoring that

is the schools, because of course the

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schools are sourcing these companies

to bride, and I'd like to start this

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episode by thanking the department

of education for adding the new.

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Role that I have on top of all

the other roles that I have the

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principle as a nutritionist.

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So if you need any nutritional advice from

me, Ah, because I'm suitably qualified,

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according to the department of education,

you just come to me with your diet plan

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and I'll let you know if it's any good,

but the reason I'm starting the episode

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with this is because the government

not only have provided me with this

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wonderful title of being a nutritionist.

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They've also bestowed a wonderful title.

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On to teachers.

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And S and A's and they have

announced the establishment.

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I have a support service and

educational therapy support service.

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Now.

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Just the important word here

is support, not therapy.

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Because I think what the press release

from the government is that people will

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think parents will think that schools will

now provide therapists and specifically

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occupational therapy and speech and

language therapy to children, the school.

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But no, remember the word is support.

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And let me scroll down this

article, this press release.

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She has provided, she

has managed to secure.

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Two and a half million Euro.

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In funding.

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After 39 therapists and oh, they also have

behavior practitioners, five of those.

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And what these people will do is that

they will provide support to teachers

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on destinies to provide occupational

therapy, speech, and language therapy

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and behavioral therapy to children.

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Now, what they aren't doing is

providing any extra resources

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to the schools for this.

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And what these 39 people

will do for the five.

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What is it?

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550,000 children in the in the country.

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Let's say 10% of them will need as speech,

language therapy, occupational therapy,

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which has probably so 39 therapists

would provide all this for 55,000 pupils.

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They won't see them.

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They won't even talk directly to them.

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What they will do is they

will advise teachers and SNS.

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Things to do and they will

focus mainly on movement breaks.

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Because movement breaks are all the

children with speech and language therapy.

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Speech and language and

occupational needs we'll need all

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they need is a bit of movement.

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I'm sure schools wouldn't

have a clue how to do that.

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Would they?

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So ultimately.

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Another initiative without any

substance and teachers and SNS are

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going to add occupational therapists,

speech, and language therapists and

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behavior therapists to their ever

growing role of in the costume.

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There are no extra resources

I said, which means that.

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Essentially this isn't

going to work really?

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Is it.

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It's it's interesting how it

was reported in the media.

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As a sort of Almost a copy of

the press release in a way.

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But in reality.

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We can't expect.

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We can't expect this to work.

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If we don't fund these things properly

they're not going to work and we're

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going to, we're just essentially putting

a sticky plaster over a situation.

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That's just going to cost even

more money if we don't solve it.

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When I look at some of the countries

I've visited or I've had teachers

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visiting where they have these

services on site there's in Finland.

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Almost every school has a S a site,

a school psychologist on site.

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In Valencia and Spain, where as

some of my staff went to visit

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to learn about what they don't.

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They have.

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It's funny.

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I'm laughing because I can't believe

these things have to be able to happen.

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They have an on school psychologist and

they also have a senior psychologist

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available when the onsite psychologist

is, has a more complex case.

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It's just.

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It's amazing.

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There's other countries are doing and

it's these wraparound services that we're

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lacking and we are absolutely piling on.

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Piling on all this stuff.

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Onto schools.

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Who don't have the expertise.

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We are really, I'll tell you

what we're really good at.

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We're really good at educating children.

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We are really good at caring

for children and as much as we

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can, but we aren't therapists.

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We aren't specialists in occupational

therapy in speech and language

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therapy and behavioral supports in.

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Dietician work, but it seems

that all these things are

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just being landed on schools.

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And based on I think, and I could

be wrong on this based on the public

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perception that we've nothing bad like

that we're that this is an easy job.

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This is just a job.

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That we can land it on

because we barely work.

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This idea that sharp.

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What are they doing all day?

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They only work half days.

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So they just pile on this sort of extra

stuff that we're not qualified for.

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And it's not.

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It's not going to work.

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And we can see why it's

not going to work because.

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Parents are saying it's not working.

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We're seeing a huge rise in mental

health issues with a young people.

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And this group here, families

for the reform of comms have

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essentially been working.

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For the last few years, trying to insist.

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That better services are given to

children with mental health issues

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and they have provided this wonderful

report which is the experience

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of comms, a family perspective.

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And I'm just going to go through

and their executive summary.

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It's a really big

document, 117 pages long.

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And I just.

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I don't have the time to go through it

with you on this podcast, because we have

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so much to cover, but in their executive

summary, they've gone through the results.

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And it basically says, some of the key

facts here, 92% of all of the respondents

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said that they have felt their child's

mental health deteriorated during the

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referral process to comms alone and 43%

took additional steps to try and get

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their child's referral to comms existed.

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And steps included getting a private

diagnosis, seeking political support from

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local politicians, going to AA and E and

not mentioning an existing diagnosis.

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That's generally awesome.

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Just for those of you who don't know.

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One of the unwritten rules for parents

who need mental health support for

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their child is not to mention autism

because if you have, or if you have a

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diagnosis for autism, You can forget.

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Being supported by cons.

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It's a bizarre kind of thing because most

children with a diagnosis of autism will,

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at some point have mental health needs.

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And comms is the only public

service that will give that to you.

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It's absolutely shocking.

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And obviously the last thing they're

going public with their experience at

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the fight for services has to continue

hot to continue in the time period

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subsequently spent on the waiting list

where 69% of people saw private support.

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39% of respondents had to

bring their child to AA.

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It's just shocking.

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It makes terrible reading.

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And if you couldn't afford to go private.

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You were in serious bother on

the article goes on and on.

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I have a link to the entire article.

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Which is on the newsletter or in,

on the website on chart dot Nash.

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But it's awful.

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It's really awful.

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And it's a shot.

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It's a, it's an off suit.

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It's a scandal.

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Really?

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I think this is special.

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Education is going to be the scandal

of our times in much the same way.

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The scandal of the 20th century was the

abuse of the Catholic church on children.

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And I think the 21st century,

we're going to look back at the

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abuse we have that the services.

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The lack of services for children with

additional needs and how we are failing.

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So many our children.

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With additional needs.

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And no spin doctoring and no.

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Press release is going to rescue.

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The government from what they've

been doing for the last decade and

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a half to children, traditionally,

it's a service that started off.

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Quite well.

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Is being turned slowly, but surely.

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Into this megaliths of bureaucracy, where

children, with addition to where they're

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spending more money stopping services

for a dish for additional needs than they

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are at on actually helping the children.

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It's an absolute shambles and we

know this even at the very basics of

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levels when children come to school.

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They are already set up to fail

because let me move on to the

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next article to show you this.

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I remember when I started off in teaching.

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Sorry.

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As a principal, even that if you had

a child coming into junior infants

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who needed extra support, you could

get that support before they started.

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You would guess that they would

get their diagnosis from a

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psychologist or from a service.

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And if it recommended SNA or recommended

support hours, they would be in there.

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They would be in place when the

child landed in junior infants, but

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in 2017, This completely changed.

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In fact, I'd go as far back as two times a

year before that, when it comes to special

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ed special needs assistance, things

changed that you didn't automatically.

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I get a special needs assistant,

but definitely in:

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very basic level for what we're

known as resource hours A child.

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A child would no longer be entitled

to resource hours or support

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hours at when the model changed.

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The sat allocations model

changed where school was given

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a bulk of hours based on some.

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Random algorithm, which nobody quite

understands and nobody quite gets

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big, but we do know as schools.

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That it certainly isn't enough hours.

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And essentially, unless the hours are

d on data, that was to was in:

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So if you were a developing school you

certainly aren't getting enough hours.

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Even now but even then you were

still, it was cementing a 15%

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cost that was made in 2011.

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So essentially 90, over 90% of

schools and probably more now are

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not receiving enough support hours

for children because of this model.

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And this year it was exacerbated further

dash a, the department of education.

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Weren't getting data on complex needs of

children, whatever complex needs means.

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It's a word that it's a

term that's coming to the.

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Parlance at the moment.

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And I'm not quite sure

exactly what it means.

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But my guess is it's children with the

diagnosis of something, but children

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are not getting are not getting the

supports if they have complex needs.

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Certainly at least until second class.

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And even then that's that's pretty shaky.

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In terms of very shaky data, because

that's just based on their scores of

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their literacy and numeracy tests, which

again are very shaky tests because they

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only tell us they only tell a small

story about where a child is at, but

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effectively every child in this country

is now is now getting sorry, every

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school in this country is getting the re.

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What were known as the resource

hours or the support hours based

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on really re not even shaky data

junk data is what I would say.

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And it is no wonder not.

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It took me a while to get to this,

that hundreds of schools appealed their

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cuts to their learning support hours.

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And I don't understand why.

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Is it Carla, Brian, I assume it's Carta.

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Brian who's written yet.

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Carla Brian who wrote this article.

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Coats is in inverted commas

because it's certainly was cots.

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And of the hundreds and hundreds

of schools that applied at appealed

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for their coats and 120 of them.

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120 to go to.

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A thousand additional hours now.

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Look at that.

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That sounds oh that, that might,

again, you have to look at spin.

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You have to look at headlines.

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You have to examine them a thousand

additional hours between 120 schools is

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less than 10 hours a school on average.

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That's not a lot.

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At all, by any stretch of the not changing

that's not even two fifths of a post.

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That doesn't mean that many teeth, that,

that doesn't mean that many children are

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getting very much as a result of that.

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And it also does.

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And.

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How many schools appealed, especially

now how many schools didn't appeal,

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because they didn't see the point,

because if you look at the data

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and the data is out there because.

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The national principal's forum have

questioned schools about this, and

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they've got the dot on it and you can

find that on principal's forum.org.

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Most schools didn't bother appealing

because of the bureaucracy and

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arduous nature of the appeals process.

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And I'll tell you a little bit

about the appeals process, because

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we know a little bit more about it.

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And this is what you have to do.

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If you want to appeal your cost.

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In inverted commas, I don't even why I did

the quotation marks cause they are codes.

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But I think it was 75% of schools

didn't bother because they didn't

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think they'd be successful.

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And they're good.

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And they're very good.

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Reason after that, because

statistically less than 10%.

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Of appeals are successful, but let

me go through the process because we

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know what it is now for these appeals.

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So let's say your school, that

feels they got caught and they.

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Gotta cost or don't have adequate hours

for the growing needs of their children.

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You go onto this portal.

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NCSC dot.

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IE.

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And you go to the portal and

you fill in a form and not form.

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In my case was 26 pages long.

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The bigger the school, the more, and

the more pages will be, but anything

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between 10 and 35 pages where you

have to charge every single child.

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Child's needs and how your school

is trying to cover them in the

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small amount of hours that you get.

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And you feel like that form, it

took my school five days to do that.

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Other schools reported, we took around the

same amount of time and you upload that.

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To some portal.

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At the NCSE.

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Okay.

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And.

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Dash form.

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Is examined by somebody.

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We don't know who the somebody is.

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They don't know your school.

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They don't know the children

because you're not allowed

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to say who the children are.

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You have to code those.

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And they look at it and they, their job

is to try and find any reason to not.

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Except your appeal.

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Any reason whatsoever.

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And it's really easy to find a

reason not to give that appeal.

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And I won't go into all the

reasons because there's so many

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of them, it's set up to help.

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It's set up to help you fail it.

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Isn't there to help you.

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It's set up to help them fail

or they don't know your school.

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They don't care what your school is.

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They're looking for any reason to say.

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You have not provided sufficient

evidence to support your appeal.

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And that's what most schools, gosh.

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And in some ways, They're really

lucky that they were told, off you go.

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Because we're not bothered at looking at

your school ready because if you take,

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if you were successful, What you then.

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I got as a prize.

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For being successfully.

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Showing that you have

been under resourced is.

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You will get a full desk review.

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So that would mean that you would

have to spend another five to 10 days.

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Doing getting proving that

you're under under resourced

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and you would, might get it.

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You.

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I think you might get a visit.

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I think you did get a visit from

someone in the NTSC who would re would

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comb through your application and then

determine that you might need a couple of.

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A couple of extra hours a week.

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It's almost like it's.

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Not that it's almost that it is

exactly what is happening here is

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they're doing everything in their

power to put people, to put schools

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off from applying for additional.

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Hours for the children and their

school, they make it so difficult.

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So as to make it.

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To make it just, you don't have time.

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We don't print schools do not have

time to spend 10 days of their

397

:

school year trying to prove that

they don't have enough resources.

398

:

We know we should be trusted.

399

:

To be able to say, here's what we need.

400

:

And I, my, my.

401

:

Belief.

402

:

Is that these ad.

403

:

These things are being deliberately

pot in place to effectively

404

:

discourage schools from applying.

405

:

For the supports that are needed

for schools, because it's just.

406

:

It's just impossible.

407

:

To satisfy them.

408

:

And it's depressing.

409

:

For schools.

410

:

And as I said, car, Carla Brian's article

here just goes through the information.

411

:

And it's interesting.

412

:

To see.

413

:

Dosh, car people like as I am,

or they're saying that they are

414

:

they also are critical lavish.

415

:

But again, the department of

education, they just have the.

416

:

They just have the spin to say,

Ah, there's no perfect model.

417

:

What can we do?

418

:

Do you know if they spent

the amount of time and money?

419

:

That they are spending on stopping

these resources from coming in.

420

:

This is really easy.

421

:

Aren't it is a very small country.

422

:

They have over 3,200 members

of staff in the NCSC.

423

:

Now there are five sorry.

424

:

There's only 4,000 schools in the country.

425

:

And 3 8, 3, 3 and a half thousand

of those are primary skills.

426

:

And they have 200 NTSC

people who could gash.

427

:

I don't know, whatever 30, 40, 50

schools each other, and they could.

428

:

Easily determine what needs are there

or they could trust that schools it's.

429

:

I mentioned this before I

was on the hard shoulder.

430

:

With Kira and Coda, he and we talked

and he talked to, he said, he mentioned

431

:

the whole idea about tax returns.

432

:

You're trusted to put in

your tax returns properly.

433

:

And if something looks a bit funny

a little red light will appear

434

:

in your tax office and someone

will come and do an audit on you.

435

:

The same could be done for special

education, but the truth is.

436

:

They know.

437

:

They know, they can't afford the

amount of money that will be needed to

438

:

support children with additional needs.

439

:

And therefore it might be cheaper to run

systems like this that prevented children

440

:

from getting the support they need.

441

:

They're only fooling themselves because

of course, as we know, if we don't.

442

:

Provide early intervention here.

443

:

The, this is going to come back

at them when the children become

444

:

adults and require the supports

of adult therapeutic services.

445

:

And so on.

446

:

But anyway, I'll move on because.

447

:

What are we doing about it?

448

:

Some might say even the

inspectors, RM aren't too happy.

449

:

And this article is actually, the

headline doesn't really tell you

450

:

much about the report, but even

the inspectors are critical of

451

:

how we're doing special education.

452

:

This report is basically saying we

don't have enough special classes

453

:

which is which we have the perennial

story of the family who sit on

454

:

the cover of a newspaper of UGA.

455

:

Eh, one of the newspapers and with

their child who's every day is saying,

456

:

when am I going to go to school?

457

:

When am I going to school?

458

:

Parents saying, oh, I, Y I wish.

459

:

I just dream of a day that I can

put on my child's school uniform

460

:

and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

461

:

But he doesn't have a place

and I'm trying to explain it

462

:

to him and all the rest of it.

463

:

And we hear this story every single

year and we get the same results where

464

:

a local politician will come to the

rescue of that particular family.

465

:

And.

466

:

Last minute things are done.

467

:

Children are thrown onto buses to

travel for hours every day to get into

468

:

a special school or a special class.

469

:

And it's just a mess every single year.

470

:

And that's just warden mess.

471

:

Really.

472

:

And then we have to look at the

idea of special classes and are they

473

:

the solution that we're supposed to

be doing is this is a very kind of

474

:

Irish solution to an Irish problem

where we pretend to have an inclusive

475

:

education system, because we allow

children into the same school building.

476

:

But don't provide any supports that are

needed for children with additional needs.

477

:

And then who's to blame only the

schools, because obviously they

478

:

can't add, they can't work miracles.

479

:

Either, if we're going to be doing

things, we need to do things properly.

480

:

And unfortunately.

481

:

We're not doing things properly,

getting a diagnosis as this parent

482

:

says is only half the battle and

the inspectors are quite critical of

483

:

how we're doing special education.

484

:

And, it's just not great.

485

:

It's not great at all.

486

:

And not only are the inspectorate claiming

that special education is falling apart.

487

:

A group of principals went to the

doll and they spoke to what I hear

488

:

was the largest group of politicians

to ever grace, the AAV room.

489

:

And what they did was they outlined a

number of issues, including funding,

490

:

including the workload of teaching

principals and principals in general.

491

:

But I'm going to go to focus

on the briefing document.

492

:

They provided here on special

education because we're focusing on

493

:

special education, but basically I

just wanted to go through the points

494

:

here and it's the Chronicle under

resourcing of special education needs.

495

:

I'll be a bit of repetition here.

496

:

The number of children with

special needs in primary level

497

:

has increased by 56% since 2017.

498

:

That's shocking.

499

:

And yet very few.

500

:

I would say fewer than 10% of schools

have increased their special education.

501

:

Provision in their schools.

502

:

Special needs assistance and sat

allocation has been frozen since then.

503

:

Before 2011 resource allocation

for special education was

504

:

based on individual need.

505

:

Since 2017, Don Iceland, the case.

506

:

In 2010, 15% of special education

teaching resources where coach

507

:

they've never, ever been restored.

508

:

In 2022.

509

:

A new allocation model was introduced.

510

:

And essentially it got rid

of complex needs as a model.

511

:

Sorry, that should be 20, 24.

512

:

I think.

513

:

From this year.

514

:

And.

515

:

It effectively.

516

:

The only measure of a child's need

is how they perform in a very.

517

:

Niche test the just the English and

maths ability on a particular day.

518

:

And it doesn't, it's

just as it's junk data.

519

:

It's now a requirement that children

with diagnosed needs are obliged

520

:

to be given support from those

allocations, which has a say.

521

:

May they may not even fall under

just because you have an additional

522

:

need doesn't mean you're not

good at literacy and numeracy.

523

:

And I've said.

524

:

This.

525

:

I know some of the support groups would

agree that just because you have a complex

526

:

need or an additional need doesn't mean

that you're not good at English and maths.

527

:

In some ways, I just feel it's really

disrespectful that the that's the

528

:

way they're measuring these things.

529

:

There's a chronic lack of

availability of professional staff

530

:

to undertake testing and diagnoses.

531

:

And I just, at the moment, if you want a

private assessment, you could be waiting

532

:

up to a year for a private assessment.

533

:

These.

534

:

That's how bad things will become.

535

:

The department is claims that cannot

measure current need requirements

536

:

because they don't have any of the

data they're refusing to take the

537

:

data because you don't have the data.

538

:

If you don't have the information.

539

:

How are you supposed to provide for us?

540

:

You can't, you can claim ignorance.

541

:

We didn't know.

542

:

We don't have the data.

543

:

It's very clever in some ways.

544

:

However school leaders do know the

needs in their school, but access

545

:

the resources required we could, and

schools could report these needs on

546

:

the department for the departments

are using the primary online database

547

:

system, but the departments are

unwilling to collect data in that manner.

548

:

The purpose of the allocation models to

distribute special education teaching

549

:

hours across mainstream classes in

4,000 schools, to ensure that resources

550

:

are allocated at the right time to the

right place so that these hours are

551

:

available to schools to match their

identified, need to support their pupils.

552

:

We know that's not happening.

553

:

The allocation criteria is have

changed from the five criteria,

554

:

which one of those was complex needs.

555

:

One of those is gender, which

is a good thing at that.

556

:

They've got rid of that, but there's

a, but it's down to three under.

557

:

Which is Baffling.

558

:

And none of the mainstream.

559

:

Special education and as pupils can be

recognized until at least second class,

560

:

because that's the first time that you

put in their literacy and numeracy scores.

561

:

To seek additional support.

562

:

I've said this to you, this

exceptional appeal or a whole school.

563

:

SNA review their arduous and largely

on successful schools are obliged to

564

:

request a review of their set allocation

in light of exceptional circumstances.

565

:

So you have to, you ha essentially, if you

want an increase in your resources, which

566

:

every school I would argue probably needs.

567

:

They have the data here.

568

:

360 schools applied for an exceptional

review in:

569

:

forward for review and 39 were

actually application for an increase.

570

:

So by 10% of schools were successful

and I would guarantee you that

571

:

99% it needed it of the 78 special

needs appeals that were made.

572

:

And the reason why.

573

:

By the way some of you

might go, why aren't he 78?

574

:

Because schools are petrified.

575

:

Petrified that they will

actually be decreased.

576

:

And if they apply for a special

needs assistance appeal and that

577

:

that Petra fication is very real

because schools are already working.

578

:

An absolute skeletal staff staffing.

579

:

And I know that before you make an appeal,

you can request the scene as to coming.

580

:

Coming to your school to see.

581

:

Should you go for an appeal.

582

:

So before you even put the appeal in,

you go in and from personal experience

583

:

and I'm from listening to other people's

experiences, you're pretty much told.

584

:

Yeah.

585

:

There's not a hope in hell.

586

:

So that's why 70 H is the low number.

587

:

But even though 78 people

as schools that did appeal.

588

:

Only 16 of those were old pals.

589

:

A tiny percentage.

590

:

And the reality is that schools in

schools as a case, loads are fluid.

591

:

So you don't, nothing is ever solid here.

592

:

And teachers do prioritize and the

needs as they need as they're needed.

593

:

There isn't a child that comes in

every day with exactly the same needs.

594

:

You're constantly shifting and flowing.

595

:

Around the needs that

are there at the time.

596

:

And it's just, it's hugely problematic.

597

:

And this is going on.

598

:

I feel it's worth carrying on with this.

599

:

This is possibly the most important

briefing documents that has it.

600

:

That is in any politician's

hands right now.

601

:

So I am going to carry on with it, even

though I've gone over the 30 minutes,

602

:

the government don't have the data to

quantify the scale or store shortage.

603

:

Of Sam provision in primary

schools, it could easily be

604

:

rectified by using this pod system.

605

:

And I, if nothing else

happens, I think this is it.

606

:

This is a solution naps which

is a psychological service.

607

:

Remember I said in Finland, every

school has access to a psychologist.

608

:

Even the smallest schools have

a psychologist, one to two

609

:

days a week, bigger skills.

610

:

And when I say big schools, I'm

looking at 300 pupil schools, have

611

:

an onsite psychologist, an onsite

social worker, an onsite nurse to deal

612

:

with with these wraparound services.

613

:

And this goes into a bit of detail on us.

614

:

In January, 2024.

615

:

It's only a few months ago, school

principals are still being charged

616

:

with completing the sole education

component of the assessment of me

617

:

process, which we are absolutely not.

618

:

Qualified to do.

619

:

And it makes.

620

:

It really is questionable about how

legal it is for us to be determining.

621

:

The needs, the educational

needs of children to the HSE.

622

:

We are not psychologists.

623

:

We are not psychiatrists.

624

:

We are teachers and we have absolutely

no qualifications to say what the we

625

:

work from the Advice of psychologists,

if we can even get them and very

626

:

few of the children go drawing.

627

:

Phew.

628

:

Number of children who present

to us in special education in

629

:

schools do not have a diagnosis.

630

:

In fact, we have the system the continuum

of support, where we have costumes

631

:

support at the first level, which

doesn't require anything other than

632

:

that, this child needs a little bit of

extra help in the costume school support,

633

:

which is when a child might need the

input of a special education teacher.

634

:

They definitely don't need an.

635

:

A diagnosis for that

again, most children don't.

636

:

And then you have the school support

pulse, which is where external

637

:

agencies are involved in the child.

638

:

And given that most of those

services don't exist, essentially.

639

:

It's not really very much

different to school support.

640

:

And effectively, most of the

children that are getting support

641

:

in schools aren't are being.

642

:

Are being done through Goodwill

and gastric, as I always say.

643

:

And once the data is

gathered and quantified.

644

:

They say here.

645

:

If we gave them the data, you would

have an accurate Sam profile for

646

:

each school where the HSC and NCSC

provide the support strategically at.

647

:

For those children and it could be

done without, and unfortunately all the

648

:

money is being put into the NCSC who

have no data on children on affect you.

649

:

What they're just basically a bunch of.

650

:

I don't know, consultants.

651

:

Yeah, for want of a better word.

652

:

As I said, at the very start they put

in these tertiary nine therapy support,

653

:

people who won't even look at the

children won't even see the children.

654

:

They're just going to advise teachers how

to do random movement breaks on children.

655

:

They're pumping the money into the

wrong places, and it's really terrible.

656

:

This act comes from a briefing

document that was given to

657

:

all the politicians that went.

658

:

Two.

659

:

The to, to the room and.

660

:

I think.

661

:

I'd like to hope that

something will come from us.

662

:

It's that the politicians

have the information now.

663

:

And that's every party.

664

:

And in fairness, Holly, Karen's the

leader of the social Democrats as

665

:

spoke in the doll about watch what

her advisor had learned from this.

666

:

And, it was terribly depressing.

667

:

And to hear the response from

me, whole Martin, the Tanisha.

668

:

Who I would argue is still probably

the best minister for education

669

:

we've hired in the last 20 odd years.

670

:

But as the response was really

depressing, he decided, rather

671

:

than actually, tackle the issues,

he decided to play it political

672

:

football with it and start slagging

off Holly Karen's for being doomsday.

673

:

And yet.

674

:

Do you know?

675

:

Sure.

676

:

You don't see the other side of the coin

and started listing school lunches as

677

:

I don't know how great everything is.

678

:

It's really depressing.

679

:

We have a massive problem.

680

:

Every body recognizes it.

681

:

We've seen it from the parents.

682

:

We've seen it from the inspectors.

683

:

We've seen it from the principles

and we even see it from.

684

:

A 13 year old girl, Kara Dermody,

who has been campaigning for

685

:

the last couple of years.

686

:

For better services for autistic children,

she has two brothers who are autistic.

687

:

And her family have been fighting.

688

:

For services for her brothers, but

not only for her brothers for all

689

:

children with additional needs.

690

:

And I know the focus for Kara and

her family is autism, but I think

691

:

they've expanded that to children

with additional needs in general and.

692

:

Look.

693

:

Is it going to be the case?

694

:

That.

695

:

Kara Dermody.

696

:

A 13 year old girl who I'm sure

has enough to be doing in her life.

697

:

Being a 13 year old girl without having

to go to the trouble of being the face.

698

:

Of saving the education system

of saving special education.

699

:

I don't, I think she's

a wonderful young woman.

700

:

Who.

701

:

I would imagine it doesn't want

to be standing outside the door.

702

:

Doesn't want to be going on the radio.

703

:

Talking to very kind I've listened

to some of the interviews and

704

:

people are very kind to her.

705

:

I sure she doesn't want to be

repeating herself over and over again.

706

:

I'm sure.

707

:

At some point, it's going to get

depressing for her, where she's going in.

708

:

Where all these politicians want

to have a photo with Carra Darmody.

709

:

Who have had her Assurant.

710

:

great.

711

:

Aren't you wonderful.

712

:

Effectively patronize the the

patronized her and say, oh, we will.

713

:

I don't give tokenistic stuff.

714

:

I'm very interestingly, one

of the tokenistic stuff.

715

:

Things that we're doing on it though,

actually in fairness to car's dad.

716

:

He called it out.

717

:

The family were actually privately

given money by the HSE for the

718

:

two the two brothers there.

719

:

And he called it out saying that I didn't

know that I was getting a privilege

720

:

here, and this is essentially to get me

and my family to shut off essentially.

721

:

And he's called it out

and it was reported.

722

:

But Is it.

723

:

Is it, that is it the fact that our

special education system rests on the

724

:

protests of a 13 year old girl, instead

of the principals who have very well.

725

:

At outlining the solutions to this

issue, to the inspectors who have

726

:

shown the shortcomings of the system

to the parents who are talking

727

:

about the mental health supports.

728

:

And these are only three things that

have just come in the last fortnight.

729

:

There are so many other groups

out there who have gone in to

730

:

talk about special education.

731

:

I didn't include inclusion Ireland

who had who had a meeting or briefing

732

:

as well in the last couple of weeks.

733

:

I do.

734

:

You know what?

735

:

I, wasn't going to mention them

because it nearly feels pointless

736

:

because it was pointless.

737

:

I know the representative bodies

also went in the IPP and the ITO.

738

:

Probably part of each other

on the back for a job.

739

:

Well done.

740

:

It, they've, they're not seeing what's

going on Kara and her family and the

741

:

principals and the inspectors and the

families who are out there who have to

742

:

fight this every single day on the ground.

743

:

And do we have to, as

I say, Is Cara Darmody.

744

:

Somebody's going to be the equivalent

of the gratitude Thornburg for the

745

:

climate catastrophe or the Malala

use of, for the for the plight

746

:

of Muslim girls in education.

747

:

Do we have, does it, do we

have to have a poster child?

748

:

To save us.

749

:

At to save special education Ahrens.

750

:

I don't think it's fair

that's going to be the case.

751

:

And what I salute Kara for

everything that she's doing.

752

:

I just wish.

753

:

I wish it didn't have to be that way.

754

:

It's not right.

755

:

That all rests on a 13 year old girl.

756

:

And for children with additional

needs to gash what they require

757

:

and what they're entitled to.

758

:

Because.

759

:

If we don't.

760

:

We know what the issues are.

761

:

We know.

762

:

What the solutions are.

763

:

And it shouldn't take something like this.

764

:

To solve it.

765

:

And if I were the minutes for

education, And even fives the T shock.

766

:

I would I be very happy to meet this

wonderful 13 year old girl and shake

767

:

her hands and have a photo with her and

tell her how wonderful she is and how.

768

:

And my aunt, all the

things are going to do.

769

:

I'd be doing it.

770

:

I'd be actually listening to

all the voices that have been

771

:

talking to you for the last few

weeks, for the last few years.

772

:

And solve the problem.

773

:

It's as simple as that.

774

:

I just don't understand why they won't.

775

:

That's all I'm going to say this

week, and this is we're coming to

776

:

the summer holidays for most people.

777

:

It's ironically in the, in July we

are moving into the summer provision,

778

:

which was set up in a way after COVID.

779

:

It used to be just for

special classes in schools.

780

:

It's now expanded.

781

:

To children with complex needs, as

a number of children will be getting

782

:

an extra few weeks of scooting

as ironically as a reward for

783

:

that, the department of education.

784

:

In their wisdom decided to make

a cot to the funding for that.

785

:

It just tells its own story

and sums everything up.

786

:

Anyway.

787

:

I hope you've enjoyed I don't

know how you've enjoyed this one.

788

:

Ah, but I hope you've enjoyed listening

to this and sort of summary of the

789

:

last two weeks in special education.

790

:

And as I said, please subscribe

to the podcast on your favorite

791

:

podcast, please tell a teacher about.

792

:

And do you know, what would

you mind reviewing it as well?

793

:

Look, thanks so much for listening.

794

:

All the very best take care.

795

:

Bye bye.

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