Episode 6

INTO Congress, Moral Panic and Gender, Book Grant Uncertainty

In this episode, I explore the landscape of primary education in Ireland, focusing on the outcomes of the INTO Congress, the ongoing conversations regarding gender identity in schools, and the looming uncertainties over the primary school book grant scheme. I delve into the controversies surrounding teacher compensation for overseas work, the dominance of religious control in education, and the societal response to gender identity within educational settings. Additionally, I express concerns over potential reductions to the primary school book grant scheme.

Transcript
Speaker:

MacBook Pro Microphone & FaceTime HD Camera-2:

Hello, hello.

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You're very welcome to if I were the

minister for education from anseo.net,

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I regular podcast, where I look at the

world of primary education in Ireland

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and let you know what I would do.

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If I were the minister for education

on today's show, we look back on the

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I N T O Congress, the moral panic

surrounding gender identity in school.

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And the uncertainty around the school

book grant for primary schools.

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If you are interested in finding

our podcast, you can find it on

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every podcast platform, whether

that's apple podcasts or Spotify.

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And we're also on YouTube.

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If you want to read along while

I tell you about my thoughts.

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If you are interested, in following

along, there's a show notes or any

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links that I described, you can find

them on the podcasts show notes,

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and they are available on anseo.net.

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they're all linked nicely for you

with a summary of the podcast there.

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If you are in a rush.

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So let's get going.

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With the I N T O Congress, because.

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And the auto Congress, for those

of you, who've never heard of it or

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haven't been on it before is it's

an annual event for the INPO the A

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union, the teacher's union Ireland.

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Ah, where people from all over the

country come together to demand that their

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union put in place certain things for.

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And it's one time in the year where the

media got very interested in teachers.

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And they tend to before the

Congress starts make a guess.

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Ah, what the highlights of the

Congress will be about as a report on

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us and before the Congress started,

I think everybody thought and me

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included that the whole thing would

be all about the housing shortage.

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And the shortage of teachers.

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So therefore you will have

teachers basically traveling

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miles and miles, kilometers,

and kilometers to get to school.

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And sure enough, this was the story

at the big story about the educate.

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Or sorry, the IMCO Congress

to be highlighting.

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And it was of a teacher who is

driving from port leash to step aside.

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But in fact, It wasn't it was

part of the story of the Congress.

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The media became fixated on.

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Teachers working in Dubai.

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The other countries in the Gulf state

and when they returned to Ireland, They

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were complaining that they were not

getting compensated for the time that

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they were teaching over in, let's say

the United Arab Emirates and Dubai.

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Depending on the school they were in.

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So just to explain if you are qualified

as an Irish teacher, And you work

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in an EU country or even in the UK.

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Your service.

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Ah, in these countries is

recognized on the pay scale.

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However, if you go to the middle east or

sorry, even to the Gulf states It depends.

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Depending on the type of school

you go to, your service might be

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recognized in Ireland or it might not.

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And this story.

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From the Irish Independent.

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There were, many of

them is of one teacher.

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Over, I think his name is Rory.

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I think it was him anyway, telling

a story about he and his wife.

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We're working over in Dubai.

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And when they came home, his

wife's work was recognized.

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As for pay when he came back, but his

wasn't and it was because of the type

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of school they were in and in a way

it created some sort of inequality.

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And when he was pressed on this but

surely you should have picked a school.

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That did recognize your pay.

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The funny thing was that you don't know.

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What.

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What type of school you're in until

you're actually there and in the job.

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And you may not even know until you

come back and you apply for your

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increment or whatever, it's for your

work to be recognized by the, our

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stage onto to actually come home again.

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And it's an interesting one because

initially when I was listening to

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this, I was thinking like a lot

of teachers or a lot of people.

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you've chosen to leave Ireland and

you've chosen to go to a country

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where you're getting paid very well.

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Your conditions are very good.

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It's tax-free you'll come home

with quite a bit of money.

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And essentially, I don't really

have that much sympathy for you.

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But then when I was listening to

Richie story on the radio, I was

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talking to, I was a guest on that.

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I think it always already to stay

what I was going to say, but as I

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listened to Richie story if it was

Richie I the fact was his wife was

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recognized for her work in the same.

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Country.

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And his wasn't and it would seem

the inequity wasn't very fair.

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And John Boyle was actually

on the same radio at the time.

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And he was saying that they

had done some negotiations.

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The only two who had

done some negotiations.

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Dash service up to virus at seven years

is recognized in certain jurisdictions.

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And he did recognize and said that it

seems a little bit unusual that say.

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That if you worked in one school in

Dubai and you worked in the school and

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other school in Dubai, you should really.

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The Irish government should recognize

the service, no matter what it was now,

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Isn't because they're having a

laugh over there or they're there.

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They're just going off the crack

or to save money for a, to buy a

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house and they get here and then

some people do I'm sure do that.

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But a lot of people that go over

there is because there wasn't

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work in Ireland at the time.

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And this guy went over in 2012, 2013 when

there were no jobs in our indictment.

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I remember I would be advertising

maternity leave posts on it could

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have 500 applications for that post.

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Things are different now.

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But we still have a shortage

of teachers right now.

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And we're trying to bring

people home, from places.

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It's but I can imagine if

you've been there, if you've

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invested 10 years of your life.

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And you're coming home and

you're not recognizing you're

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starting from the very beginning.

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What you really come back?

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What is the incentive to come back?

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And I suppose my argument with myself in a

way is, should that be recognized because

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we have a shortage of teachers now, or

should we, say look you, you did go off

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and, maybe you went off for, reasons

because there were no jobs over there.

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Maybe you went over recently

where there were loads of jobs

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in Ireland on, should you get the

benefit or the reward for that?

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And it's a definite debate.

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I think we definitely need to have my,

I suppose my inclination is inequality

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thing that if we are paying some people

that are going to Dubai and we're not

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paying others, then we need to make

equalize that we need to definitely, I

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either do one or the other either re.

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Reward.

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No one.

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Or we.

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Or we reward everyone.

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And so I thought it was a kind of an

interesting story and it was the one

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that really grabbed the headlines.

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I suppose more than anything else.

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I was very glad to hear though and

see that the RTE picked up on a story.

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Of the changes to the

set allocation hours.

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And after the blow of seeing the

IPN ganging up on principals despite

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supposedly representing them and saying,

gosh, there was no change to the support

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hours, the sport education hours.

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Or the set of vacation hours.

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And that we were all wrong.

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It was nice to see that the IMCO have

backed their members in this case.

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At the Congress and hopefully

we will be seeing some changes.

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I do know, as I am recording this.

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There should have been an Heraclitus

committee meeting where this was raised.

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And I do know there's still talk of

us even at today in the newspapers.

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There is talk about at

the set allocation hours.

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And the disaster.

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So I'm really was really happy to see

that this came up and I NTO Congress

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was passed by members I think at the

IPP and should be fairly embarrassed

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by what they did to their own members.

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If those.

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There can't remember, this was the

joint communication with the NPC.

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And AP NAPT.

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I have no idea why the NAPD were

involved in this, in the first place.

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Where they denied there was any devilment

going on with the sash allocation hours.

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And interestingly enough, devilment

since then has happened because

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now the department of education.

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Despite, I know there's

nothing to see here at all.

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They've decided to shift the goalposts yet

again, and this week they only an answer.

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Oh yes no.

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There's no problems here at all.

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In fact, an a hundred

schools should know this.

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Basically children with complex

needs are measured in two ways.

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Firstly by literacy and numeracy scores.

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So those who fall down and interested

in reading scores, if they've complex

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needs will be allocated hours and those,

and with complex needs will be exempt

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from doing the standardized tests.

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So they would get the

maximum level of support.

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Now.

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I wish someone had told school says

because I know schools around the country.

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If they've children with any

needs complex or otherwise.

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And it comes to the standardized test.

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They will do whatever they can to help

that child do those standardized tests,

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because it's only right that they have

the opportunity to do these standardized

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tests, whether you like standardized

tests or not And often these children

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find it very difficult to cope with

the pressure or The difficulty of doing

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the tasks a lot of children with maybe

anxiety or maybe with a diagnosis of

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autism or something that just makes

it really difficult for them to be

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in this kind of pressurized system.

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A lot of the time they'll go

with their support teacher

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and do the test on their own.

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Which will you know, or in

a nicer atmosphere for them.

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All this is going to do is you're going

to see a massive rise in exemptions

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from these standardized tests.

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Rightly because this is the only

way children with complex needs are

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going to be able to get the supports.

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They.

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Are entitled to.

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And it's a shoddy from the

department of education to

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shift the goalposts yet again.

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I just wish.

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It will be covered.

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And I know there's been politicians,

wonderful politicians out

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there who are bringing this up.

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People like Gary Gannon from the

social camera cuts on every time

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he speaks or about this, they took

department of education to have these.

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The soundbites kind of sentences, which

sound like not, there's nothing to see

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here and they keep shifting things around.

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It's really disappointing.

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As I said, so very glad to see the

ITO backing their members, backing

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teachers in their calls on this.

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Unlike as I say other

organizations like the IPN.

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However, the Irish examiner,

sorry, I'm open that up.

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The also bought into this and

Katrina golden, a wonderful

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principal owned boot own Bowie.

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Oh God, I can never pronounce her at

her school that when we get educate

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together has also talked about the

special education allocation model.

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And again a lot of criticism, really

good article that really well called

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out for on glad to see the Irish

examiner as always covering at that.

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Sorry.

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In fact, I would say the Irish

examiner, if you're going to subscribe

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to a newspaper, I have to say of

all the newspapers out there They

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really do treat teachers very well.

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And they're a little bit more eclectic.

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And what they cover.

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In fact, when it came to the int

O Congress whereas most of the

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newspapers went for this story.

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As I thought I brought up the.

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Archie's on rewind for a different

angle and actually listed things

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that were actually on the agenda

that actually affected teachers

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rather than, click baity type thing.

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It I must say the Irish

examiner really well worth.

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Having a look at.

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But the big story, and this was

the one I was really surprised

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because it was my big story.

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This is the one that I was interested

in coming to the IMCO Congress.

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It was basically a motion that went in

under, there was a lot of work that's

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gone into this motion, which was the

beginnings of conversations to remove

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the stranglehold that the religious

bodies have over the primary education

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system, particularly the Catholic church.

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And Emotion did go through where the only

two are going to survey their members

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on really on the role of religion.

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I'm religious control in schools.

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But also the need for the

religious certificates that

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most teachers have to have.

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If they want to work in

an Irish primary school.

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Many people don't realize how

recent Religious certificate

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is I qualified in 2002.

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And there was no need for a

religious certificate to get a job.

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I got my first job.

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In a Catholic school as most of and

I was never asked for this religious

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certificate, it came in around 2005.

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And I remember it because I remember I

had come out Kamash to my principal about.

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Not being Catholic.

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And this certificate was being

bandied about as an optional

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kind of thing at the time.

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And she asked me, would

I consider doing it?

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And I think when she said,

when would I consider doing it

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that wasn't really a request.

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But I refuse to do it.

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However, by 2006, maybe 2007,

it was a requirement for any.

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Teacher wanting to work in a

Catholic school to have one and no

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other religious buddy or no other

patron buddy has this requirement.

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And I feel very strongly that

patron buddies shouldn't insist on

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a quite under patrons qualification.

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And I think the reason I don't want

any patron buddy to do it is because

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if I don't want the Catholic church.

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I don't think anyone else.

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As you just not fair to expect

something of one patron body.

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Like we do at the moment in terms

of enrollments and not expected

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from minority bodies either.

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That's how I feel quite strongly about it.

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But D ready to certificate

essentially teaches you how

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to pass on the word of God.

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And then I'm just quoting to the children

and your skill, you how to become a

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missionary, how to become an evangelist.

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I know these words are of motive and

people don't like hearing them, but

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that's what you're supposed to do.

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As a teacher in a Catholic school, you

are supposed to impart the word of God

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onto the children, pass on the faith.

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And, most teachers don't really

consider themselves as missionaries.

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And Avi Malali I think is the name

of the, or Mulcahy was the main

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researcher around us where she surveyed

Teacher trainee teachers in:

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99% of them had made their

sacraments, but only 59% of the

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now with adults actually consider

themselves Catholic and more of them.

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Actually believed in energy than they

did in God, which is really weird.

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But they also believe in spirits or

they believe in God and actually.

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Quite a few of them believed in magic

which are thought was interesting.

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And why that will be part of

the question air altogether.

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Anyhow.

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Moving back to this int

emotion that passed.

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It was surprising to me, number one, that

it, not that it passed particularly but

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it was surprising to me how it actually

was covered in the two main media outlets,

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which is the RTE on the Irish times.

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And it was really gratifying

for me to see that.

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And I had some thoughts on that.

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On those motions that you

can read on my medium blog.

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Two thoughts, really?

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That was the first one is thoughts

on the motions on, secondly, why

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you, the teachers that spoke on that

religion motion are heroes because

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many of you might not realize that.

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When you speak at Congress or

when you speak out in public at

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all about religion in schools.

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Particularly, if you are critical of it.

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You run a risk of breaking a law.

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Which is section 37 of the employment

equality act, which allows an institution

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to discipline you for what they consider

undermining the ethos of the school.

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Now what undermining the ethos means.

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Is very unclear and we

don't know what it is.

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But essentially it is, it

could mean anything from.

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I suppose decrying the Catholic

church and basically taking, I don't

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know what you could do to describe.

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The Catholic church, a lot of people do

without realizing it, just something as

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innocent as going up on the ITO stage

and saying that there shouldn't be a

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need for a religious certificate in

education, and we should start questioning

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the role of religion in schools.

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Yet many Catholic teachers stood up on

that podium and called for just dash

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Catholic teachers working in Catholic

schools run the risk of basically.

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Being disciplined, being

passed over for promotion.

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Maybe not being able to get a job in

another school in the future, because

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I can't imagine the conflict church

firing a teacher for this because

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the press will be, so we'll be mad.

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In fact, it's one of those as I call

it, the don't ask don't tell system

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that we have in Catholic schools.

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Because we don't know

where the goalposts are.

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it's very difficult to know what to do.

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So people say nothing.

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The only teacher that we know of

in our thought was disciplined.

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For basically undermining the section

37 was Connor Braedon, who I interviewed

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on the podcast a few years ago.

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But practicing yoga could actually

if you really wanted to do.

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Could be considered undermine the ethos.

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And I've linked in the article

here to why that could be it

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might sound strange to you.

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The teachers that spoke up

the ITO Congress are unlikely

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to be fired for speaking out.

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But depending on their school, they

might find that they might be passed

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over for a position of responsibility.

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They might find themselves not being

allocated their choice of class.

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They might find themselves

being left on their own.

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If a difficult situation arise

in their classroom, they might

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find themselves overlooked.

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If they apply for a position in

another school, they might even

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get a private part in the back

from their principal, Berkeley.

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Before being slapped on the wrist

and told to keep their head down.

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But in most cases I have to concede

nothing would really happen.

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Unfortunately, none of those

speakers knew or know what the

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reaction will be for their calls to

remove the religious certificates.

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And some may never know.

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However they did take the risk.

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And to be honest, what I can

say is I am grateful for them.

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I think for me, the int or

Congress was quite interesting.

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I never go, I have very little faith.

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In anything really happening from the

union, but I will say that the call for

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the religious certificate to be removed

and the survey to talk to teachers about

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the role of religion in schools has gotten

me a little bit excited and I will admit

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it may bring me back to int your meetings.

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This was the first time I

suppose I've been involved.

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Eh, very indirectly, maybe, but certainly

on the periphery of emotion, going

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through to the floor and seeing a past.

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And it showed me that in some

ways there is a little bit

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of democracy left in the ITO.

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I have called it and accused

it of being a theocracy.

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But this is a time where

I think this is emotion.

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To be honest.

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I don't know if the weather

the ITO could do without us.

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Or not however.

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The jury's out, maybe this time

next year, let's see where we stand.

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As I say, I'm cynical by nature.

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But I have to say I have a

little buzz of excitement.

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And maybe it's a bit of gratitude for

those Catholic primary school teachers

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and The teachers who aren't Catholic and

working in a Catholic primary schools

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who were taking probably a higher risk.

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I'm really grateful to them and I

really appreciate what they've done.

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I'm, me personally, but for people

like me coming into the system.

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Those, there's absolutely no way I would

be able to work in a, in most primary

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schools due to just an accident of birth.

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I just happens not to be

born Catholic in Ireland.

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MacBook Pro Microphone & FaceTime HD Camera-3:

Of course, Norma Foley was a guest at

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the Congress and she used her time to

speak to the delegates about smartphones.

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Pretty much, that was the main

thing she wanted to talk about.

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The only thing that the media wants to

talk about, because I'm giving you a

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random example there from Doni go live,

which is a local paper and Donegal.

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Where she talked about primary school

children, not needing smartphones.

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I mean, she's doing a great job of this

big battle against smartphones without

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actually doing anything about it.

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For example, I know that if I

was a child and I wanted to buy

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cigarettes or I wanted to buy

alcohol, there's a law against that.

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So I'm sure it's not too difficult

to bring in a law to stop you

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from possessing a smartphone.

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If you are under a certain age.

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Yeah, she doesn't seem to be able to do

that, but that's for another day If you

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are interested in good insight as to the

smartphone, a debate on young children.

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The New York times came with an article

about screens being everywhere in schools,

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but do they actually help kids learn?

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So.

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Let's move away from the

Congress really good event.

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I think, and it sort of gave me

a little bit of hope, as I say.

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For the education system and maybe for

the union and maybe for democracy, I

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suppose the answers will come in time.

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I'm moving on to, and I probably won't

spend a huge amount of time on this,

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but probably warrants a lot more time.

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So I probably will come back to it.

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I didn't do.

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A podcast and about gender identity

and education around gender identity.

384

:

On the anseo.net podcast, it was

called we need to talk about gender.

385

:

And it's an issue that I've been avoiding

speaking about for quite some time.

386

:

It's because of my lack

of knowledge, I guess.

387

:

and I don't want to, Talk in a way

about an issue where I don't really

388

:

know enough about it to have any

expert view, and maybe it's something

389

:

I might interview people about.

390

:

In the future who would have

more expertise rather than just

391

:

having an opinion on matters.

392

:

Both in the UK, a report came

out from Hillary costs generally

393

:

around I suppose, puberty blockers

for under eighteens and so on.

394

:

And the report essentially was saying,

Children have been let down on gender care

395

:

based on weak evidence for the support.

396

:

There seems to be lots of question marks.

397

:

Around providing children

with care on gender.

398

:

And this report is being hailed by

those who are who are, I suppose,

399

:

what I would call gender critical.

400

:

And I'm using, going to be using a lot of.

401

:

Quotation marks in here who would consider

education or talking about gender, where

402

:

the idea of the a dash gender and sex are

not the same thing as gender ideology.

403

:

And again for those of you who are not

watching on our listing, I'm using a

404

:

lot of quotation marks here because

I just don't, I don't want to say the

405

:

wrong thing on, I don't want to offend

anyone or I'm saying this I'm just

406

:

essentially talking about not what I

believe, but what people are saying.

407

:

And then there's obviously people on the

other side of us who are very critical of

408

:

this cost report saying it's set based on.

409

:

On sound data and so on

and so forth and really.

410

:

Where I do know I am

standing on this issue.

411

:

Is something is really make

me feel very uncomfortable.

412

:

And it is.

413

:

This correlation that

some people are making.

414

:

Between religious education in schools.

415

:

And gender education in schools That.

416

:

The, when really?

417

:

Because we're talking about.

418

:

You know, About questioning

religion in schools and, and

419

:

the viability of religious faith

formation or indoctrination

420

:

or whatever you might call it.

421

:

And I'm using the word indoctrination

very deliberately here.

422

:

That they're conflating that if we

lose, if we stop doing religious

423

:

faith formation in schools, it will

produce a void that will be replaced.

424

:

And in inverted commas with gender

ideology or a gender indoctrination.

425

:

And you know, this is the bit

where I do have some expertise.

426

:

I guess and it's really, really

something that I'm feeling very strongly

427

:

about, and I'm really annoyed about.

428

:

Because when we were reporting.

429

:

On the IMCO Congress.

430

:

And that teachers are now going

to be surveyed around gender and

431

:

the, and the lack of the need for

a religious certificate and so on.

432

:

That in anything to do with religion

and schools, but what about the

433

:

religion of gender ideology?

434

:

It seems to be this response and

this idea that they're there.

435

:

They're in fairing.

436

:

That if we replace.

437

:

Religion.

438

:

They're effectively, we're going

to place a religion with gender.

439

:

Identity stuff.

440

:

And I think it's it's crude.

441

:

And it's.

442

:

It's nonsensical.

443

:

And it's and I needed to, and I really

wants to put my thoughts together on it.

444

:

So I did.

445

:

And I it's on my medium blog.

446

:

Why we must be careful not to correlate

gender identity with religious education.

447

:

It's a long read about 10 minutes

read, according to medium there.

448

:

And it goes on basically to you know

Tony talks about the ITO thing, and then

449

:

it it talks about it gives some tweets.

450

:

And an example I gave is from collect

call for who's a lecturer in CTU,

451

:

someone I know from outside of the

education system, someone I like.

452

:

And I've spoken to outside of Twitter

and so on around gender identity.

453

:

I mean, I have spoken to her about

this because I always believe that

454

:

when you don't know something or

when you don't know a lot about

455

:

something, you should really listen

to everybody and even provocateurs.

456

:

And I mean, I.

457

:

Apparently some people consider

me to be provocative and to

458

:

be a biggest or whatever.

459

:

And.

460

:

I'm not, I don't think I am.

461

:

And clash is often

called a biggest as well.

462

:

And I don't think she is either.

463

:

But I am, I am cross and disappointed by.

464

:

The fact that she's starting to, that

she's using a line and I've seen now

465

:

in a number of occasions and it's

not just her, I'm not picking on her

466

:

particularly, but people like her.

467

:

Saying that will teachers, if they're

not doing it, if religion is removed from

468

:

schools, will teachers, all of a sudden

be having to do workshops in gender

469

:

identity, which is the new religion.

470

:

And it's, it's very annoying because.

471

:

I know she's not.

472

:

A stupid person.

473

:

I know she isn't.

474

:

She's a really nice person.

475

:

I see.

476

:

You know, you can say, oh look,

religion is just an ideology.

477

:

Well, so is this gender thing?

478

:

So they're the same thing.

479

:

And therefore gender

identity is a religion now.

480

:

it's a way for people who are religious.

481

:

Who are trying to defend

religion and schools are now

482

:

going to are saying, oh, wow.

483

:

Now we can have well, if we don't have

religion in schools, we'll just replace

484

:

it with this religion of gender ideology.

485

:

Again, inverted commas.

486

:

I keep having to say in virtual commas,

And, and there's no, there's no link.

487

:

There's just no link whatsoever

between the decline of religion.

488

:

If it ever happens.

489

:

And then the rise in gender.

490

:

I don't know if that was the case.

491

:

I mean, the, the religion has

been declining in society from

492

:

years since the 1970s in Ireland.

493

:

And this whole conversation

around gender and so on.

494

:

It's very recent it's in the

last five or six years or so.

495

:

I mean, like in mainstream, I know

it's been, it's been going on for many,

496

:

many years, but, but certainly in an

Irish context, in the education system,

497

:

it's really on the last five years

where we're talking about gender now.

498

:

I think It's really unfair

to start trying to link.

499

:

Things where links don't exist.

500

:

We have a new curriculum coming up.

501

:

But it's as true to say the

gender identity education.

502

:

We'll replace religion.

503

:

In fact it's less true.

504

:

It's more true to say.

505

:

That modern foreign languages are going

to replace religious education because

506

:

that's actually what's happening.

507

:

We're reducing religion,

religious instruction.

508

:

But by a half an hour, a week.

509

:

In Irish primary schools.

510

:

And it's being replaced with a

whole raft of other subjects.

511

:

One of them is stem, which will

include technology and engineering,

512

:

which weren't there before welding

is going to be another thing which

513

:

does not mean gender identity.

514

:

Wellbeing is wellbeing.

515

:

So again, lot of all this sort

of stuff, and it's, it's, it's

516

:

really frustrating to see that.

517

:

That's every time I see a religion post.

518

:

Now, every time I see something about

religion in schools now, I can at least

519

:

a percentage of those replies we'll

talk about, well, I hope it's not going

520

:

to be replaced by that gender stuff.

521

:

Or so on.

522

:

And.

523

:

It's really.

524

:

I mean, it's kind of

ridiculous now in the article.

525

:

I talk about why that happens and I

can see why I'm not stupid either.

526

:

You know, I can see why these have links.

527

:

Are being brought in there's

a program called busy bodies.

528

:

If you're and in busy

bodies, there's a page.

529

:

Which discusses gender identity.

530

:

And at the booklet is for parents.

531

:

And for adolescents, it's not for

primary schools, primary schools use

532

:

busy bodies, but they have a PDST

version of that, a workbook, and it

533

:

doesn't mention gender identity at all.

534

:

I provided links in the

medium blog about that.

535

:

there was a video that was produced by

the IMCO, which talked about a teacher

536

:

talking to their class about a social.

537

:

Transition.

538

:

And this has caused huge consternation

with some of these gender critics.

539

:

But the thing is.

540

:

Gender is not correct it's not

there, and this link with religion.

541

:

It's just really, really

annoying because it isn't linked.

542

:

We are reading.

543

:

I am been, I suppose it annoys

me so much just because.

544

:

I guess we know that.

545

:

Religious control of schools is not ideal.

546

:

No one would disagree with this.

547

:

I mean, if it really, I mean, in fact,

we, we all know that now that most people.

548

:

You know, up until a couple of years ago.

549

:

Certainly if you asked most people.

550

:

Should we should, should we, it

should churches control schools.

551

:

They would say no.

552

:

You know, most people would say no.

553

:

The thing is, I don't

think that's happening.

554

:

As much anymore.

555

:

In fact, a guy.

556

:

Tweeted, ask it basically saying sure.

557

:

Now you have as a

provocative and of tweets.

558

:

I don't know if it's a good

way of measuring if budget.

559

:

I think he was expecting

different results.

560

:

But most people reply to his

tweet said that they would prefer

561

:

to have the Catholic church.

562

:

In control of schools, then

there's gender ideology.

563

:

Now he didn't ask, he didn't mention

gender or anything like that, but this

564

:

is the thing it's been linked to so

much that it's becoming nearly fat.

565

:

And for me, it's just

a complete moral panic.

566

:

That they think a decline in

religion will all of a sudden

567

:

bring in this gender stuff.

568

:

Gender ideology, gender identity,

education, things like that.

569

:

And there's absolutely no reason.

570

:

And, you know, it reminds me of the moral

panic that happens when RSC was threatened

571

:

to be updated from the 1999 or 1997.

572

:

Curriculum as it was, and it's been

blocked, but at every course, and what was

573

:

happening was there were people out there

who were basically saying that teachers

574

:

were going to be teaching children,

how to masturbate from the age of four.

575

:

and it just, I mean, there was even

went to the point where there is a

576

:

fact check done by the journalists.

577

:

They do fact checking kind of things.

578

:

It's mot it's marred and.

579

:

You see the thing about this is

the tone of the gender critical

580

:

people is they're using really,

really interesting emotive language.

581

:

They're calling it like gender

ideology even in itself is.

582

:

It's dismissive and often I

don't only see them using that.

583

:

But they're using terms like

indoctrination, you know, you,

584

:

you, there was a guy as a lot of

these guys in their green hoodies.

585

:

I think of a photo of one of them here.

586

:

There is one.

587

:

It's one of those protesters

outside the libraries.

588

:

Who had these green hoodie saying

education, not indoctrination.

589

:

I found humorous considering a 96% of

schools, indoctrination of religion.

590

:

Actually happened that indoctrination

is what happens, whereas a there's none

591

:

of the sorts of things that they think

are happening are happening in schools.

592

:

Both.

593

:

Other words like what was saying

like indoctrination colonization

594

:

has been used cults agendas.

595

:

And things like that.

596

:

And I was even looking through

597

:

she, you know, she talked about

the colonization of the Irish

598

:

curriculum, where she talks about

gender identity education coming

599

:

in and starts off with them center.

600

:

Ireland is no stranger to colonization.

601

:

And basically we are now the implantation

of gender identity theory is happening

602

:

throughout the education system.

603

:

And she gave very, very loose examples,

which, which aren't actually part of the.

604

:

The curriculum itself.

605

:

At all.

606

:

Blogs are opinion pieces, and you can

use kind of emotive loose language.

607

:

And it doesn't really bother me

too much, but it's interesting.

608

:

You know, the kind of language

that's being used by people.

609

:

And you know, I, I don't

have a problem with that.

610

:

I mean, she does write actual

factual stuff, research-based stuff.

611

:

You know, people are complex, you

know, I know people listen to this.

612

:

Podcast.

613

:

They agree with some of the

things I say, and they don't

614

:

agree at all with a lot of stuff.

615

:

I don't think that's everyone.

616

:

You.

617

:

This is one of the problems

particularly in this gender debate is.

618

:

You're either on one side or the

other side and their sides were

619

:

polarizing, And I think we need.

620

:

You know, as I think I said

this in my podcast thing we need

621

:

to be doing is talking to each

other and speaking about this.

622

:

And I'm asking really good

questions of each other.

623

:

Instead of like telling each other that.

624

:

You know, everyone is telling each other.

625

:

they're wrong under the right

wing or their loot, Looney

626

:

laughter and all the rest of it.

627

:

And it doesn't help.

628

:

The conversation at all.

629

:

It doesn't.

630

:

And, and the fact that, you know, even me

saying that sentence is for even saying,

631

:

there should be a conversation I could

be canceled for want of a better word.

632

:

I'm not, I'm not a Fe enough,

which I'm what I'm speaking

633

:

about in this particular case is.

634

:

W why would we.

635

:

Use something on linked.

636

:

For an argument.

637

:

MacBook Pro Microphone & FaceTime HD Camera-4:

I mean for me.

638

:

It's so frustrating.

639

:

To see, as a minority for that are

fighting for the last 20 years or so.

640

:

For people who don't practice.

641

:

One or two particular religions being

isolated from the education system.

642

:

That our struggle.

643

:

Is being used.

644

:

For, purposes.

645

:

Whether they're well-meaning or not.

646

:

But completely on linked

so that they are happy.

647

:

To throw minoritized people under a boss.

648

:

And so that their point of view.

649

:

Is listen to , even though

it has nothing to do with it.

650

:

So they're essentially linking.

651

:

The demise of religion

In society or in schools?

652

:

Two.

653

:

The idea that gender and identity

education would take its place.

654

:

And it's really.

655

:

Ah, I suppose that's what

upsets me so much about it.

656

:

And, I said this art, I won't

go through the article too much

657

:

because I'm well, over time.

658

:

At the stage, but I hope you'll read it.

659

:

And see what you think academic.

660

:

Outrage bait.

661

:

And I think that's a fair thing.

662

:

I talk a little bit about,

a little more about it.

663

:

And I guess, for me, the conclusion

I come to really in a way.

664

:

Is that the people that were using.

665

:

I suppose in a way.

666

:

When a, I'm sorry to use now analogies.

667

:

I think we don't even have to

go very much into the past.

668

:

I can go into today.

669

:

Even when it comes to migration,

you've got people who are

670

:

marginalized from society.

671

:

Economically and they see migrants

been given what they perceive

672

:

migrants, be given houses for free,

and they're getting nothing and so on.

673

:

So what they do is they protest the

migrants and they attack migrants.

674

:

And they dehumanize

the migrants and so on.

675

:

This is the same sort of stuff that

you're picking on the weakest while the

676

:

people in charge get away Scot free.

677

:

And this is what it looks at.

678

:

And you think for the short-term

win, that this will be a complete

679

:

win, but the problem with these

kinds of things is it feeds in.

680

:

To this really, I think there is a huge.

681

:

Risk.

682

:

When the people who are buying into.

683

:

Fear mongering and moral panic to

further their own political cases.

684

:

And we will see the people,

the parties that are talking.

685

:

About gender ideology.

686

:

Very few of them would be, parties that

you would like to see governing this

687

:

country because of their other views.

688

:

And some of those other views.

689

:

May fall foul of your views.

690

:

So you might feel strongly.

691

:

About gender.

692

:

Identity education.

693

:

You may not like that.

694

:

Quite a number of the parties.

695

:

That are supporting this.

696

:

Would like to take away the right

to abortion for women, for example.

697

:

And they would all share that.

698

:

Some of them would have.

699

:

Very anti migrant stance.

700

:

Some of them would want to be

leaving the EU, for example.

701

:

What would Ireland look

like in a case like that?

702

:

I've watched some of the, some of these.

703

:

Suppose the journalists.

704

:

Coming along to protests.

705

:

I watched one of them in Cardo.

706

:

And as I said, there was an

amusing part where he had to cross.

707

:

The rainbow crossing that's in Cardo

town, the guy who was doing the filming.

708

:

And as he was crossing the road, he was

giving out about the universities in the

709

:

town that have obviously caused this.

710

:

Do people like that who get into power,

start shutting down universities, or.

711

:

Firing people who don't in universities,

who don't go along with the stances.

712

:

you see where I'm getting out

here I'm really worried when.

713

:

people who are oppressed start

oppressing other oppressed people.

714

:

So the perception of being a pro press,

because some people would disagree

715

:

and that either parties are oppressed,

but we're certainly not empower.

716

:

And I guess, we only know too well,

what happens in that kind of regard?

717

:

I think that's all I'll say about gender

identity education for the moment I

718

:

wanted to come back to this and it

probably will come back to it now.

719

:

Particularly as it's now treading on.

720

:

I suppose an area I feel

very strongly about.

721

:

Not that I, or that I have, I

actually have knowledge about.

722

:

It's probably not fair that I don't.

723

:

All I care about.

724

:

If I have a child in my school who is

experiencing gender identity issues.

725

:

My job is to help that child.

726

:

I don't care about anything

else I just want to do.

727

:

What's right.

728

:

I have for that child and

I'm learning all the time.

729

:

What that looks like.

730

:

And I find a really unhelpful.

731

:

The kind of rhetoric

that's going around and.

732

:

Anyway, I suppose I'll say

no more on the issue because.

733

:

As I said I'm well over time and I

want to move on to the final story.

734

:

There was an announcement late last week.

735

:

About the junior cycle, free school

book scheme, but no announcement

736

:

about the primary book scheme.

737

:

Now as I'm not that pushed

about the actual scheme itself.

738

:

I don't think it aids

education particularly, but

739

:

I know it's a vote grabber.

740

:

But the thing is, once it's in, it's

expected, then that'll be in forever.

741

:

And that if it is taken out, I think

parents would be very aggrieved

742

:

that they then again, have to,

they then will have to spend.

743

:

Money or they'd be looking at why

didn't you, why did you spend all the

744

:

money in one go, if they take it away,

like my belief, to be honest with

745

:

you, and I maybe I'll be proved wrong

by the time the podcast comes out.

746

:

And this is based on

this tweet I received.

747

:

I when I saw this somebody.

748

:

Who's tweaked their rosy Doyle.

749

:

A review of the guidelines for year

two is currently underway of the

750

:

school book scheme for primary level.

751

:

The specifics of what is covered

under this scheme will be sad.

752

:

Housing detail.

753

:

I know they used to be in due course.

754

:

My fear is they're going to pay the 96

Euro per child is going to be caught.

755

:

To something, and I don't know what

the something will be and it's already.

756

:

April mid April.

757

:

And my fear is it's going to be

cut all together and they're going

758

:

to say, oh no, we never said it

was going to be paid every year.

759

:

It's every few years on schools

would have been advised, but she

760

:

weren't basically, we were told this

was going to be an annual thing.

761

:

It was going to stop parents,

having to dig into their pockets.

762

:

Most schools have a fee and not a fee

every year, but they have a money every

763

:

year with ask children, buy books, but

the money doesn't change very often.

764

:

And I think schools would

have probably offset that 96

765

:

year old for whatever money.

766

:

They were charging in the first place.

767

:

Most school books are

very expensive these days.

768

:

Like your maths book is over 20 Euro.

769

:

This is one book.

770

:

And so people might be saying,

oh sure, 96 euro's loads.

771

:

But when you take it into context,

your maths book is about 22, 23 Euro.

772

:

And probably a little bit more now.

773

:

So it isn't a lot of money.

774

:

But now the fear is they're

not going to give it.

775

:

And even if they caught it a

little bit, parents were after

776

:

spending maybe after not having

to pay for school books this year.

777

:

We'll be expecting not to

pay it ever again because

778

:

they themselves are promised.

779

:

That the scheme will be going ahead.

780

:

And they, the department of education,

spin doctors are very clever people,

781

:

as we know, and they'll say, oh no.

782

:

This year it's primaries it's

primary schools next year.

783

:

It's.

784

:

Junior cycle, the following

year, it will be senior cycle.

785

:

And then we go back again to junior to,

so it will be on a three-year rota basis.

786

:

That wasn't what was agreed at the starch.

787

:

And In fact, I remember

language like that.

788

:

I don't know, my fear really

is that we're in for a cost.

789

:

And hopefully by the time this podcast

comes out I will be proved wrong, but I

790

:

have a very bad feeling that I won't be.

791

:

Ultimately that is all I'm

saying on those three stories.

792

:

I have lots and lots of other stories

available too, on my anseo.net newsletter.

793

:

Where I picked a number of stories

from Ireland and across the world.

794

:

About education, including

some tips for your classroom.

795

:

One thing that I thought was really nice

was our brain breaks for your classroom

796

:

might be of use to you as well as that.

797

:

I have some mini CPD in every newsletter.

798

:

this time I'm looking at AI again and

how I built the unit of work generators.

799

:

Some of you may have been working on

that in fact, a lot of you seem to

800

:

have seen it because I had over 400.

801

:

uses of it.

802

:

In the space of 48 hours.

803

:

Nearly bankrupted me.

804

:

The other thing that's in the

newsletter is some tweets that

805

:

I've that'd been posted by people.

806

:

Ah, who I admire very greatly and

some commentary on those as well.

807

:

And so really, if you are interested,

please go to anseo.net/subscribe,

808

:

and you can forget that news that

are straight into your inbox.

809

:

And we'll tell you, as soon as.

810

:

The next podcast is out some, Hey.

811

:

So Matt CPD on a few extra

bits and bobs bonus material.

812

:

But that's it for me for this week.

813

:

Thanks so much.

814

:

For listening or watching.

815

:

And I'll be back to you in a couple of

weeks time, all the very best bye-bye.

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About the Podcast

Show artwork for Anseo.net - If I were the Minister for Education
Anseo.net - If I were the Minister for Education
An Irish Primary Education Podcast

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About your host

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Simon Lewis