After Josepha, Physical Aggression Rising, Estonia is the new Finland.

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Hello?

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Hello.

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You're very welcome to if I were the

minister for education from anseo dot net.

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A regular podcast, where I look at

the world of primary education and

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I let you know what I would do.

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If I were the minister for education.

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This is Simon Lewis.

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Speaking on this week's show, I will be

looking at life after Josefa Madigan.

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The rate of physical aggression is

rising in our classrooms and why.

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Estonia is the new Finland

and lot stops more.

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If you subscribe.

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And as well as the latest podcast

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other stories that I've been thinking

about over the last couple of weeks,

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and bite-size bits, I'll also be

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found on Twitter or X as it's now known.

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And every two weeks, I'll be providing you

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with a mini CPD project which generally

focused on technology and education.

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And this week I've made a video about

using AI and the wisdom of the crowd

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to develop a chapter of a textbook.

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You can have a look at that by

subscribing to the newsletter, as

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I said, on anseo.net/subscribe, and

I have a lovely template for you

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to create a chapter of a textbook.

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I in the video here, I give an example.

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I go back to my birthplace

of Rathmines and Dublin.

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And I create a chapter of a textbook

on the history, the geography, the

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logo on them of Rathmines, or And

and I'll show you how to do that.

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So let's get straight into our episode

where we look at the big story.

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Over the last two weeks, which was

the resignation of Josefa Madigan.

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From the political world, she will

not be contacting the next election,

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but step down as the minister for

special education, possibly we

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are not going to see a minister

for special education again.

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I thought it might be a good idea

to maybe look back at the last few

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years of Boucher C for Madigan's.

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Legacy how she did what she did and what

she may have been able to do better.

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And if we are to get a minister for

special education in the future, what

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they might do if they are the minister

and I did this on my blog, which you

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can read on Simon M lewis.medium.com.

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And what I have my post is obviously,

if you're looking at YouTube,

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you can see my picture here.

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Have a look alike of Josefa.

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Madigan cutting a red ribbon in a school.

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And I felt that we were talking

about Josefa Madigan in the

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future or her successor.

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If there is one, we should be

cutting red tape, not ribbons.

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And.

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I wanted to talk to you a little bit about

my thoughts on just see for Madigan's.

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And I suppose in the wider context,

the way politics has been going.

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In education over the

last couple of years.

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And, it was cleaned of historic when

just Eva Madigan was given a position,

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a new position of the minister

for special education, a junior

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ministry, but a ministry dedicated

to special education, right in the

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middle of COVID 19, actually in 2020.

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And after a decade, I said, after a

decade of cuts and serve it to services

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and supports to special education.

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And the portfolio did come

with a very big budget.

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And you will know that budget because

every time you mentioned special

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education in a PQ and a question in

the door, they will tell you how much

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they've invested in special education.

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It's 2 billion a year, by the way,

just in case you don't know both.

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I argue in my article.

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Rather than spending that money wisely,

she kowtowed to populous pressure and

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left the portfolio a bureaucratic mess.

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I want to chart how she did

and you'll see from, if you're

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a reader you can read alarm.

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If you're watching the video hear

or listen along, if you're on the

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normal podcast where I said, I felt

when she took on the post, it was

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the middle of the COVID 19 pandemic.

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And it was really, any minister, his

first obstacle was to navigate that time.

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And.

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In fairness, she really struggled.

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I feel at find your feet app.

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Particularly in terms of her language,

where she would say she misspoke on

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a number of occasion, probably her

most famous examples where, when

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she referred to children without

special needs, Normal children.

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And she also talked about the

lack of special school places.

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I'd been like the mother and baby homes,

trying to compare that, which caused

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a little bit of consternation though.

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I would be more forgiving of her

latter misspeak than her former one.

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Anyway.

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She tried her best.

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I suppose to assert herself with

that administer Norma Foley, add

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to guest services for children

with additional needs during

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a COVID and the The big thing.

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I suppose the big pressure from

the advocacy groups was to get

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the children back into school.

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Even though there was a pandemic at

the time and people were very scared

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that they would contract this disease.

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To which there was no vaccine at the time.

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There were people dying.

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At the time, but many parents were

basically saying the teacher has

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been very selfish by not allowing

their children come back to school.

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Even though they themselves wouldn't

go face to face with people in their

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own jobs and even funnier at me.

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I know it was never a funny time.

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Really?

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None of the advocacy groups were

doing anything face-to-face either.

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However, they thought sure teachers

should be working face-to-face

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with children for the greater good,

despite the fact that they weren't.

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Unfortunately, Madigan decided that she

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were to take the side of children with

additional needs by creating divisions

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between the advocacy groups, parents.

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And schools and relationships

remain fractious.

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Even today I'm most recently

in the conflict over special

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education teaching allocations.

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And that fractiousness is bizarre.

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It's weird.

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We've got schools as school

principals, AB op against their

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own representative groups.

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You've got parents.

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Up against the department of education.

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Barron's fighting with schools this

time and you've got the advocacy

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groups as well in the middle as well.

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It's all a bit bizarre.

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And anyway rather than

restoring an education system.

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During that recession they

decided Josefa Madigan.

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And minister on remotely

rather than actually.

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Bringing back the resources that were

there because some of you might remember

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the first thing that happened during

the recession was a 15% cut to serve a,

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to a resource hours as they were known.

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Then.

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Two children with additional

needs and schools.

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Which has been continued now that

they've removed at the supports

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for children with complex needs.

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Rather than all that kind of stuff,

because they're not the things that

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matter really to children and additional

these, they don't need learning support.

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They don't need any of that kind of stuff.

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No.

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What they need is free hot lunches,

free school books, free summer

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programs and free school buses.

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Yes.

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And Madigan who described herself as

being relentless, what they wanted

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and what they needed was to open

as many special classes for autism.

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Add all.

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At all costs.

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Without actually thinking whether

those classes were the right solution.

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And I want to talk about

ponder on this a little bit.

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There's some things that

aren't argued about.

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I mentioned a lot of these free

things that have happened, like free

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hot lunches and free school books.

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No one argues that these are, bad things.

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These are great things for education.

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Yes.

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When you think about

them, free hot lunches.

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Obviously I will absolutely defend that.

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I think that's fair enough.

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Ah, that creates equity in a system.

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So children from disadvantaged backgrounds

on children, if not from disadvantaged

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backgrounds, we'll all benefit.

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And we've seen studies across

the world about the benefits of

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fire, hot lunches in schools.

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Free school books is great for

parents and affordability, but

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not very good pedagogically.

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The free summer program has been, is fine.

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But again, not being evaluated in

any way, shape or form and the free

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school buses is just a complete mess.

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But I could, I have a whole,

I could do a whole episode.

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In fact, I have done a full

episode on school buses.

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Why they are a mess as they are,

but opening special cut as many of

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these special classes for autism as

possible without thinking about, are

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they the actually the right answer?

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And you could talk to different people.

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You could talk to

inclusion Ireland who may.

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Who might have opinions on that?

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You could talk to people who who

studied these kinds of things.

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In fact, I had a look and Joanne banks.

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I'm Michael Shevlin of

Trinity college and noticed.

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I noted in our 2022 survey, after

all these class are open, is there's

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been this rapid expansion of these

special cost models, but only limited

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investigation of their efficacy.

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And they've said basically that

a lot of this was essentially

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influenced by parents.

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Looking for them.

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Without actually thinking whether

they're the right solution.

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Yes.

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On the surface, they sound like great

ideas, small classes, a teacher to SNS six

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children, what could possibly go wrong?

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But what possibly goes wrong is the

fact that what happens in these classes.

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What about the local therapy supports?

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There's none of that.

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What about the training for the T?

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What about actual trained

teachers in special education?

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What about appropriate accommodation?

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In fact, because a lot of these

things are built in and small

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prefabs that are isolated from

the rest of the school community.

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They're there, if they're lucky,

even though they're in prefab.

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So a lot of them are in these sort

of I don't know Repurposed cupboards.

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Probably for want of a better word.

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And as well as our special classes,

as they were set out to be as

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integration for integration into

mainstream, they no longer serve the

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aims now that they were set out when

their scheme was first introduced.

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And it's a real pity because I

think if they were done well, they

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could actually work very well.

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And I think some will argue opening

special cuts or autism is necessary.

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And many might argue that they work

well simply I think simply putting

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six children in a classroom with

a teacher and two special ed needs

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assistance is a model that only works.

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Thanks to Goodwill and guesswork.

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I think our entire special

education needs model is founded.

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On Goodwill and guesswork.

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It works when it works.

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But when a child needs more

specialized interventions, not

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just a small class and a couple of

extra people or light therapy room.

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When it goes beyond that, it

can disintegrate very quickly.

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And we are seeing over the last

couple of years, a lot of cases

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been taken by parents against

school boards and management.

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For things that I would argue are

not the fault of the school, but the

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fault of the system that is completely

relying on Goodwill and guesswork.

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We don't have any specialized

training course for teachers

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to work in special education.

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You can do a couple of day

course that you can do these

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one day courses on very basic.

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Does the same course it's been going

for the last 20 years but there is no

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specialized qualification for a teacher.

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To work in a special class, we don't

have at the specialist therapies, the

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wraparound therapies that are needed.

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It's just, it's not good enough.

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And it needs to be good enough

because opening these classes.

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Yes, it makes headlines, but

does it make a difference?

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I think Madigan would have done better

to focus on much quieter solutions.

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So cut out this cutting of ribbons,

opening the ad, these headline,

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grabbing things about opening this

opening, that it's all very sexy and

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lovely, but we need quiet solutions.

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We have children that are sitting

on waiting lists for interventions,

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like speech and language

therapy for years and years.

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And we are not training enough people

to become speech, language therapists.

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We need to occupational therapists.

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We need loads of other therapies

and they're not existing.

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We need therapies.

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For a mental health, emotional behavioral

psychology, psychological interventions.

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We need all this and we need more

learning support as it was known

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literacy and numeracy support.

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And instead schools are getting

cut and they might say, oh, we've

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plowed in more money than ever, but

there are more and more, there are

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far more children than digital use.

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And there were several years ago

and we are not putting in the

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amount of resources that are needed.

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We are not following the children.

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We're allocating schools, resources

with junk data and it's, do

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you know what the whole system.

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Is founded on Goodwill and guesswork.

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And sand.

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And I mean that by a bad

foundation, rather than.

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Actual sand.

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It's going to sink and it's going

to sink really badly at some point.

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And what's going to happen is we're

going to put layers and layers more

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bureaucracy as we were doing that already.

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And it just isn't working.

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Anyway, Madigan's ministry is now going

to be absorbed once again, just the main

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education portfolio and it's possible.

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We may never see a special education

minister again in future cabinets.

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However, if we do, we need to learn

from the mistakes that have been made.

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For example, the front-loading model

that we introduced in: 2017

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education teachers and special needs

assistance has been an absolute failure.

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And we need to move back to

systems where children's needs.

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Were linked to the resources

that were going to the school.

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So it child's needs can be followed

from birth all the way through their

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schooling and schools should never,

ever be asked to prioritize their

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support to the highest levels of needs.

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Every child, no matter what their needs

should get their support, we shouldn't

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be asked to choose for children who

should get support and children who

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need support not to get support.

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We also need to stop the

spiraling bureaucracy that is

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happening, for example, in 2003.

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And this is, I always give this example

because I think it's a really good

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example for what happened in 2003, the

national council for special education,

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the NCAC had 15 office staff and 72

people working directly with schools.

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The CNAs.

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Within by within 15, 16 years, there

were then from 15 office staff.

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There are now 150 office staff and only

66 people working directly with schools.

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So fewer people working in schools.

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And those more people working in the

offices, we need to cut that red tape.

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However, most importantly,

we need our plan.

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We need a good plan.

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And the first step is to bring

it's bring back the parents, the

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advocacy groups and the schools.

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We need to bring them back

to gather talking again.

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A lot of damage was caused by Josefa

Madigan with her divisive tactics in

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trying to pick parents against each other.

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And it works so well.

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If you only have to go on Twitter,

At the moment and put something

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up about special education.

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You have these.

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You've got some lovely advocacy groups,

but you had some horrible I've at people

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claiming to be advocacy groups there.

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They, in fairness, A lot of them

are behind these anonymous accounts.

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You don't know who they are really,

but some of them you do is that

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you do see, and they can be vicious

against schools really unfairly.

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And and I think it's not right.

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And what we need to do really, rather

than giving out to each other and getting

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defensive or anything like that, because

I suppose I'm already getting defensive.

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And what I'm saying there is, we need to

bring parents, advocacy groups and schools

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back together talking about what do we

need and having an absolute clear path

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of what actually best for our children.

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Because that's essentially.

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At the, all that we, all of us

want when we actually do want it.

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And that's the annoying thing

about this as the minister.

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And on successive governments

before, before have been cutting and

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cutting, and the amount of supports

for children with additional needs.

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Parents are getting very frustrated

by the fact that they're not getting

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any of the therapies from the HSE.

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They're not getting any of the supports

from the various ad agencies and bit

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pretty much sometimes the only support

that a family will have for our child

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with additional needs is the school.

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I'm in the school can't fulfill.

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All the needs for that child who is there

to blame only the school and, it just,

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it becomes a mess and it isn't right.

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And it's not fair on a school schools.

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And in fairness to schools, the

fact is that we were actually

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doing as much as we possibly can

through Goodwill and guesswork.

320

: 00:15:27

Loads of us are going for training

to try and do as much as we can.

321

: 00:15:30

Many are doing things that

we shouldn't be doing.

322

: 00:15:33

We are, we're taking on recommendations

of occupational therapists and speech

323

: 00:15:37

terrorist, speech, and language

therapists, even though we're not

324

: 00:15:38

qualified whatsoever to do a lot of the

stuff that's being asked of where, some,

325

: 00:15:43

a lot of teachers in the past and will

have S and A's in the past are learning.

326

: 00:15:46

Different skills such as that, I had

to do a law, which is a sign language.

327

: 00:15:50

They're learning about

educational technology.

328

: 00:15:53

Which got assistive technology, couldn't

help a child's communication, different

329

: 00:15:56

ways of teaching the children to do

that and teaching themselves such.

330

: 00:15:59

And helping families.

331

: 00:16:00

I don't, unfortunately,

it's very unforgiving.

332

: 00:16:03

It's really young for giving.

333

: 00:16:04

There is a huge division that's being

created and I believe has been created by.

334

: 00:16:09

The minister for education.

335

: 00:16:10

A hundred to see for Madigan.

336

: 00:16:11

Where there's absolute Kind

of an atmosphere of blame.

337

: 00:16:15

An anger against the very people who

are doing their very best, a lot of the

338

: 00:16:20

time, and yes, they do make mistakes.

339

: 00:16:22

And sometimes there are bad eggs in

there, but overall, I don't think it's,

340

: 00:16:26

again, I hate using percentages, but I

think, it wouldn't be, it wouldn't be

341

: 00:16:29

unfair to say 99% of education staff.

342

: 00:16:33

Are doing everything they can to

make school as positive a place as

343

: 00:16:37

possible for every child, whether

they have additional needs or not.

344

: 00:16:41

And it's really difficult.

345

: 00:16:42

It's really difficult when

wraparound supports aren't there.

346

: 00:16:45

And if there is to be a minister

for special education in the future.

347

: 00:16:49

The only thing they should be doing

now is ensuring that the wraparound

348

: 00:16:53

supports are there and available

for children with additional needs.

349

: 00:16:57

And that we have.

350

: 00:16:59

Teachers that are fully

qualified in working with

351

: 00:17:02

children with additional needs.

352

: 00:17:02

And we need to examine whether special

classes are actually the answer.

353

: 00:17:06

Why are we opening all

these special classes?

354

: 00:17:08

And if we are and what I'm find

out, what is their purpose?

355

: 00:17:11

We have just so people know.

356

: 00:17:13

And again, this is just

a point of interest.

357

: 00:17:16

The special classes that are out there.

358

: 00:17:18

An over 99% of these special

classes are for autistic children.

359

: 00:17:23

They're for no other

additional need ratings.

360

: 00:17:25

You've got well over a thousand.

361

: 00:17:27

Autism classes, but you've got,

I think, less than 10 behavioral,

362

: 00:17:31

emotional emotional needs.

363

: 00:17:32

Casas.

364

: 00:17:33

You've got in terms of reading

classes, I think there's less than 20.

365

: 00:17:36

So we're doing.

366

: 00:17:38

Huge damage.

367

: 00:17:39

With these.

368

: 00:17:39

By, by not giving children what they

need and the next minister for a

369

: 00:17:43

special education needs to do that.

370

: 00:17:45

As I say, stop trying to look for

headlines, start looking for solutions.

371

: 00:17:50

That's what I would be doing.

372

: 00:17:52

If I were the minister for education.

373

: 00:17:54

Let's move on at, to the next story.

374

: 00:17:58

And it looks the next story

that came up in my news.

375

: 00:18:03

Was basically.

376

: 00:18:04

Results of a survey from the INTO,

which highlights that half our

377

: 00:18:08

primary school teachers are the

target of physical aggression in

378

: 00:18:11

classrooms at a survey found this year.

379

: 00:18:14

Now, if the I N T O were nice people

and they looked back at surveys done

380

: 00:18:19

by the national principal's forum, who

id exactly the same survey in: 2019

381

: 00:18:25

where they found that the same number of

primary school teachers were the target

382

: 00:18:29

of physical aggression in classrooms.

383

: 00:18:31

They wouldn't have had to do this survey.

384

: 00:18:33

At all, if they stopped ignoring

the brilliant research that is done

385

: 00:18:37

by the national principal's forum.

386

: 00:18:38

And if you would like to learn more about

the national principal's forum, some

387

: 00:18:41

would argue the only advocacy group or

the only lobby group, doing anything at

388

: 00:18:45

the moment to help school leaders in their

role highlighting brilliant research.

389

: 00:18:51

If I may say so myself, I do help

them, on a part of the national

390

: 00:18:54

principal form, it sounds like I'm.

391

: 00:18:55

I'm blowing my own trumpet here, but I

am really proud of the work that we do.

392

: 00:19:00

I'm really proud of the fact that when

it came down to it, when it came to

393

: 00:19:03

the sat allocations, just going back to

special education at the moment, we are

394

: 00:19:06

the only lobby group that spoke out

about the sat allocations and how a

395

: 00:19:11

complex needs children with complex needs

were being an absolutely cast aside.

396

: 00:19:15

And we're still in there.

397

: 00:19:16

MacBook Pro Microphone & FaceTime HD Camera-15:

And loved the fact dash and the department

398

: 00:19:20

of education were so rattled by the

fact that over 700 principals signed

399

: 00:19:25

a petition about this allocations.

400

: 00:19:27

They went to the trouble of going

through each of those 700 names to try

401

: 00:19:32

and disprove that so many principals

had Had I actually felt that way and

402

: 00:19:36

they ch oh, it was just ridiculous.

403

: 00:19:38

And even, and also on top of that, they

got their friends, they got the IPN

404

: 00:19:42

to write some press release to say,

oh, all this research is nonsense.

405

: 00:19:46

They really got rattled by it.

406

: 00:19:47

It it was embarrassing.

407

: 00:19:49

It was really embarrassing to see

both the department of education

408

: 00:19:52

and the IPPA going to such a low.

409

: 00:19:54

To try and tell principals that

they were wrong around at the sat

410

: 00:19:59

allocations, and that's still going

to go on and that's not going away.

411

: 00:20:02

And I'm hoping.

412

: 00:20:03

Because I suppose when this is going

out to the INTP Congress will be

413

: 00:20:06

happening on, I imagine special education

will come up in some way, and I hope

414

: 00:20:10

someone will mention the complex

needs thing, but what I am most proud

415

: 00:20:13

of the national pins for the wound

survey I'm most proud of is actually

416

: 00:20:16

one called the inclusion illusion.

417

: 00:20:18

And when I say inclusion, I

only mean special education.

418

: 00:20:21

In this case, I find the word

inclusion very annoying, but for this

419

: 00:20:24

purposes, we called it the inclusion

illusion, because it's a good title.

420

: 00:20:27

And it basically was the results of over

a thousand primary school principals.

421

: 00:20:32

Telling us exactly how special

education was working in their schools.

422

: 00:20:36

I'm one of the find there is loads

of findings in it, and I read a

423

: 00:20:40

really good our findings with the

one that actually made the headlines

424

: 00:20:42

and actually was in the front page

of the Irish examiner back in: 2019

425

: 00:20:46

Was the fact that I think it was roughly

about the same over 60% of primary school.

426

: 00:20:52

Principals said dash.

427

: 00:20:54

Physical aggression.

428

: 00:20:55

Ah, happened within

this go quite regularly.

429

: 00:20:57

So anyway.

430

: 00:20:59

A few years later, the ITO have

found exactly the same, which is

431

: 00:21:02

on surprising when they could have

actually been something about it.

432

: 00:21:05

I'm not sure if they're actually going

to do anything about it this time anyway,

433

: 00:21:08

but at the report read, he says that the

in fairness, The only two, I actually

434

: 00:21:12

agree with them in this case, I'm often

critical of the union but the thing is I

435

: 00:21:15

do absolutely agree with their findings

and the lack of adequate therapeutic and

436

: 00:21:19

mental health supports for pupils and the

lack of additional training for teachers.

437

: 00:21:23

Are the big causes of this

problem, where there is physical

438

: 00:21:27

aggression at, in the school.

439

: 00:21:29

Now what the union might be doing.

440

: 00:21:31

Which is something they should be

doing is protecting their members

441

: 00:21:34

from physical aggression, whatever

way it comes and to put pressure.

442

: 00:21:38

On the government to ensure that

those wraparound services and

443

: 00:21:41

saying our teachers are not going

to put up with being physically

444

: 00:21:44

attacked, physically being.

445

: 00:21:45

Hers in their workplace.

446

: 00:21:47

And you need to do you need to put in

place these things as, so that this

447

: 00:21:51

doesn't happen because it's not, and

it's not basically, the balance here

448

: 00:21:55

is trying not to blame the children

because it isn't the children's fault.

449

: 00:21:58

no school in the country

at these days anyway.

450

: 00:22:01

Very few schools these days have not

experienced a child who has experienced

451

: 00:22:06

or who is exhibiting physical aggression.

452

: 00:22:08

And every single time it is born to

absolute frustration and distress.

453

: 00:22:13

It's not because one day a child

dies, I'm going to be built and

454

: 00:22:16

I'm going to hit my teacher.

455

: 00:22:17

That doesn't happen.

456

: 00:22:18

It's through distress.

457

: 00:22:19

There is still that line there where a

child is not going to be hurting or have.

458

: 00:22:23

Acting out physically again,

strategic, unless they're in a state

459

: 00:22:25

of distress and the government need

to do something about it, because if

460

: 00:22:29

they don't, we're going to find this.

461

: 00:22:31

That's the profession that we are.

462

: 00:22:33

That we respect or

supposedly respect so much.

463

: 00:22:36

But we're finding teachers are

leaving the system because it

464

: 00:22:38

is too dangerous to be there.

465

: 00:22:40

It's too hard and it's too

difficult and it's becoming unsafe

466

: 00:22:44

and there are easier and better.

467

: 00:22:46

And well-paid jobs out there.

468

: 00:22:48

That don't have the same

sort of a thing going on.

469

: 00:22:51

And when I'm talking about physical

aggression, it's just one thing,

470

: 00:22:54

but also the way that the role

has become very disrespected.

471

: 00:22:59

A lot of the time not only in the

media, but I'm also in through,

472

: 00:23:02

at the structures of the system.

473

: 00:23:04

It's not catching up.

474

: 00:23:06

As I said, teaching used to be

this really attractive profession

475

: 00:23:09

because of the holidays, but now

most companies are catching up with

476

: 00:23:13

making their places attractive.

477

: 00:23:15

It's nice to go into a

lot of workplaces now.

478

: 00:23:17

And some of the.

479

: 00:23:19

Benefits of other workplaces kind of way.

480

: 00:23:22

The nice holidays that teachers seem

to be beaten over the head with a,

481

: 00:23:26

when they got it such as working

from home and things like that.

482

: 00:23:29

But anyway, let's move on to Estonia,

which has now become the new.

483

: 00:23:36

Country, or this is an article

from the guardian, by the way.

484

: 00:23:38

This has popped up on my screen and.

485

: 00:23:39

You should see this, you should

support newspapers and media.

486

: 00:23:42

If that, if they're doing good stories,

I have supported the guardian and I do.

487

: 00:23:46

AB offer them.

488

: 00:23:47

A little bit, a bit, every time

I see an article that I featured

489

: 00:23:50

in this podcast, but Estonia.

490

: 00:23:51

Has now the best schools in Europe

they've taken over from Finland.

491

: 00:23:54

And it said they, their headlines

here, free lunches, brain

492

: 00:23:57

breaks and happy teachers.

493

: 00:23:58

I mentioned free lunches earlier on.

494

: 00:24:00

How I support that.

495

: 00:24:02

As a mechanism, but the thing about

Astonia versus Ireland, the way

496

: 00:24:06

we do free lunches is so complex.

497

: 00:24:09

I just don't understand if we do it.

498

: 00:24:10

Every school has to organize their

own free lunches rather than different

499

: 00:24:14

local areas that are a local education,

a target providing schools with the

500

: 00:24:18

free lunches and delivering them and

done and paying people to do that.

501

: 00:24:21

No, we have to do everything through

a grant and the grant January doesn't

502

: 00:24:24

cover it and we have all this waste,

blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

503

: 00:24:27

In Estonia.

504

: 00:24:28

They probably do a batter.

505

: 00:24:29

I'm sure they do a bachelor.

506

: 00:24:30

In fact, I know they do a

better idea of brain breaks.

507

: 00:24:33

This is this is something that's not new

to most teachers in Ireland, but we don't

508

: 00:24:37

have the supports for those brain breaks.

509

: 00:24:39

As they call them, we call them

movement breaks a lot of the time.

510

: 00:24:42

And they're obviously in

built the Estonian education

511

: 00:24:45

system and a happy teachers.

512

: 00:24:46

And that's interesting about

happy teachers, what they do

513

: 00:24:49

is they treat their teachers.

514

: 00:24:50

And they have all those wraparound

supports that we don't have.

515

: 00:24:53

They also do a lot of the stuff that

Finland is famous for, particularly

516

: 00:24:56

using their space so much better.

517

: 00:24:59

I really recommend you read this

article because I think what I

518

: 00:25:02

saw when I went to Finland, And

I think Estonia is no different.

519

: 00:25:06

I'm hoping to go to Astonia one day,

it's how they use their space and how

520

: 00:25:10

to have these wraparound services.

521

: 00:25:12

The teachers can focus on

teaching small class sizes.

522

: 00:25:15

Yes.

523

: 00:25:15

Is part of it.

524

: 00:25:16

But isn't the biggest part of it.

525

: 00:25:18

It's that use of space outside?

526

: 00:25:20

How do they use the outdoor spaces?

527

: 00:25:22

This vast place?

528

: 00:25:23

All these schools are built

on really large complexes.

529

: 00:25:26

Where the children are outside for

a lot of the day, they're able to

530

: 00:25:30

move around for other day, children

walk to school, they walk home from

531

: 00:25:34

school because their school is within

walking distance from their house.

532

: 00:25:38

And they aren't under the whole kind

of obligation of having to choose a

533

: 00:25:42

different school because they don't,

aren't at the same religion of whatever.

534

: 00:25:45

Anyway, all the same reasons.

535

: 00:25:47

I really recommend you read the article.

536

: 00:25:50

I just think there's a

lovely picture of a school.

537

: 00:25:51

They build schools so well.

538

: 00:25:53

This is just a.

539

: 00:25:54

To some of the outdoor look

at your I'm just scrolling.

540

: 00:25:56

Nancy.

541

: 00:25:56

You can see some of the pictures.

542

: 00:25:58

That's the laundry music.

543

: 00:25:59

They have a lunch room.

544

: 00:26:00

For example, we, again throw these ads

wrenches into the discuss your 10 minutes.

545

: 00:26:05

Eat your lunch.

546

: 00:26:05

There's all these kinds of things

that make such a big difference.

547

: 00:26:09

Look at that.

548

: 00:26:10

That's one of the skills is not beautiful.

549

: 00:26:12

And we have our repeat generic

design when we come to buildings.

550

: 00:26:15

Just to creativity.

551

: 00:26:17

This didn't start today or yesterday, of

course, Estonia decided that they would

552

: 00:26:20

prioritize education in 1997 and 20 early.

553

: 00:26:25

I'd actually 25 years later, they have

the best education system in Europe.

554

: 00:26:28

Richard Bruton back in

: 2018

555

: 00:26:33

Arland we'll have the best

education system in Europe.

556

: 00:26:36

Fat chance of that happening.

557

: 00:26:38

If we do not put in the money, the

resources, the time, the structures and

558

: 00:26:43

everything else, we've done nothing to

make Ireland the best education system.

559

: 00:26:48

In 2026, we punch way above our weight.

560

: 00:26:51

And I just have a feeling,

our look is going to run out

561

: 00:26:53

rather than the other way round.

562

: 00:26:54

The biggest strength that we

have in Ireland is that we

563

: 00:26:56

speak the English language.

564

: 00:26:57

I would argue as our first

language is our main language.

565

: 00:27:00

I'm not saying that as a to, to discount

Irish as a language, I'm just saying

566

: 00:27:04

it's such a good thing that we have.

567

: 00:27:05

We can go anywhere in the world.

568

: 00:27:07

With that language and be able to

communicate, but we are working

569

: 00:27:11

in conditions that somehow I

don't know how we managed to do so

570

: 00:27:15

well, but anyhow that is Astonia.

571

: 00:27:17

I wanted to move on to a different

article, which had came up from the

572

: 00:27:20

Irish times, which I subscribed to.

573

: 00:27:22

And the students are stressed, teachers

have little choice and creativity servers,

574

: 00:27:25

why the Irish costume needs to change

right now, this is an article that has

575

: 00:27:30

been heavily criticized by teachers.

576

: 00:27:32

It's by Carlo Brian from the Irish times

where he asked everyone on anyone, the

577

: 00:27:36

great and the good about what the Irish

classroom needs to do to change right now.

578

: 00:27:40

And he asked lots of not the people,

but for gosh to actually ask anyone

579

: 00:27:44

working in a school instead he talked

to various people and I think it's well

580

: 00:27:50

worth going through them very quickly.

581

: 00:27:51

It's well worth reading this article.

582

: 00:27:53

Although it is subscriber only, so I

won't go, ah, You'll have to probably

583

: 00:27:56

pay for the benefit of seeing us.

584

: 00:27:58

And Luke O'Neill who has nothing to do

a primary skills things, personalized

585

: 00:28:01

tutoring is the way, but he which is okay.

586

: 00:28:03

Yeah.

587

: 00:28:04

I dunno, scrap the CAO point system.

588

: 00:28:06

So Katrina Sullivan.

589

: 00:28:07

I agree with her, although that

second level, so I steer away from.

590

: 00:28:10

Second level really there

include creativity and an utterly

591

: 00:28:13

central way says Joe O'Connor,

who is our writer fully enough.

592

: 00:28:16

I agree with them again.

593

: 00:28:18

Pursue passion projects, Bobby

Healey, who is a, what is he?

594

: 00:28:22

I actually, he's an entrepreneur.

595

: 00:28:24

I do you know what.

596

: 00:28:25

I also agree with them.

597

: 00:28:27

And what do we have connect to nature?

598

: 00:28:29

Darren McAnulty who talks

about data naturalist?

599

: 00:28:32

And a writer.

600

: 00:28:35

I actually agree with them.

601

: 00:28:36

And we move on an all

Ireland education system.

602

: 00:28:39

This is from the I N T O.

603

: 00:28:42

John Boyle, who you could argue

is the only teacher within this.

604

: 00:28:45

He is a big into creating an

all Ireland education system,

605

: 00:28:48

which is really interesting.

606

: 00:28:50

And I don't disagree with it.

607

: 00:28:52

But it's going to be,

if we are to do that.

608

: 00:28:55

If we are to do that, what,

and the biggest barrier to

609

: 00:28:58

that actually will be religion.

610

: 00:29:01

Which is interesting because open.

611

: 00:29:03

As bad as things are down south.

612

: 00:29:04

We have our religiously controlled

education system, but most people

613

: 00:29:08

in it don't take it very seriously.

614

: 00:29:10

Whereas gov.

615

: 00:29:11

Goat north, if you're in a Catholic

school, you're in a Catholic school

616

: 00:29:14

and if you're in a Protestant school,

you're in a Protestant school.

617

: 00:29:15

And if you're in an integrated

school, which seems to be similar

618

: 00:29:18

enough to educate together, except

for the fact that they are still

619

: 00:29:21

Cristo norms of in a big way.

620

: 00:29:23

I think on all lines, education

system, the biggest barrier to

621

: 00:29:25

that is a religious question.

622

: 00:29:26

We've got Adam Harris is always

talking about autism and neuro-typical

623

: 00:29:30

making classrooms and E equal and

embracive of all neuro types, Andre.

624

: 00:29:35

Again, I don't disagree with that.

625

: 00:29:37

I agree with that so far, I've

not disagreed to anything again

626

: 00:29:40

EMA from educate together.

627

: 00:29:41

Again, we need more schools are run

by organizations as in our churches.

628

: 00:29:44

I would argue that no schools should

be run by churches, but again, I

629

: 00:29:47

agree generally with her point and

prepare for an AI driven world.

630

: 00:29:51

Absolutely agree with that.

631

: 00:29:52

Catherine Byrne, who is also not a

teacher, she's more of a complainer.

632

: 00:29:55

So As much as no teacher was looked

at for this article and no teacher

633

: 00:30:01

was asking for input into it.

634

: 00:30:03

There's nothing in, not a,

there's really nothing in there

635

: 00:30:05

that you disagree with too much.

636

: 00:30:07

You do just wish they might

have asked teachers about it.

637

: 00:30:10

And the trouble is all of

these issues are absolutely

638

: 00:30:14

necessary, but it's interesting.

639

: 00:30:16

I asked on Twitter.

640

: 00:30:18

Or on ax teachers?

641

: 00:30:20

Act because teachers are giving out okay.

642

: 00:30:22

Tell me then.

643

: 00:30:23

Okay.

644

: 00:30:24

What do teachers want?

645

: 00:30:25

And it's interesting the responses

that most teachers gave and

646

: 00:30:28

there's some really good responses.

647

: 00:30:29

But the ones that kind

of jumped out at me.

648

: 00:30:31

We're, weren't very sexy.

649

: 00:30:33

And that's not a criticism, but it's

like smaller class sizes, more support

650

: 00:30:37

for children with additional needs,

these kinds of things, the things.

651

: 00:30:40

The Carlo Brian would probably go, oh God,

I can't really get an article out of that.

652

: 00:30:43

So very sexy.

653

: 00:30:44

Ah, I need some AI in here.

654

: 00:30:46

I need some, Adam Harris.

655

: 00:30:48

There's a lot of criticism

though that came from the Sasha.

656

: 00:30:50

And I thought I'd let you know that

I didn't mention was it was the first

657

: 00:30:52

sentence here of the para of here, which

I actually agree with Ireland has in many

658

: 00:30:56

respects in 19th century school system

with 20th century technology, which for

659

: 00:31:00

all its achievement needs to be overhauled

to meet the needs of 21st century.

660

: 00:31:03

I think he's right.

661

: 00:31:04

A lot of people are very disgruntled

by data and particularly teachers who

662

: 00:31:07

were very innovative and are meeting

some of those needs, but they're not.

663

: 00:31:11

I think what, Carla, Brian.

664

: 00:31:12

Whether he means it or doesn't,

but I interpret from what she's

665

: 00:31:15

saying is that the system.

666

: 00:31:18

The system is not a 21st century system.

667

: 00:31:20

There's a lots of teachers

trying to shoe horn.

668

: 00:31:24

21st century methodologies

into their jobs.

669

: 00:31:28

But the trouble is we are working

in these little box rooms.

670

: 00:31:32

We don't use our space.

671

: 00:31:33

Very, we don't have the space schools.

672

: 00:31:36

Aren't built very well.

673

: 00:31:37

The rooms aren't very good.

674

: 00:31:38

There's not there's strict of movements.

675

: 00:31:40

I honestly think, and this

is going back to Estonia.

676

: 00:31:43

It's how we use space.

677

: 00:31:45

If we could use space better.

678

: 00:31:46

If we had the structures, we

have the systems to be able

679

: 00:31:49

to use that space better.

680

: 00:31:50

If we didn't have all these

unnecessary knotty complications

681

: 00:31:53

within our system to restrict us.

682

: 00:31:55

We would have a really good

system, a good 21st century.

683

: 00:31:58

System.

684

: 00:31:59

However, as I say, I can understand

how it's irked at teachers who

685

: 00:32:02

do try to shoe horn 21st century

methodologies into these systems.

686

: 00:32:07

And they are doing very well despite

the structure, but it is the structures.

687

: 00:32:11

I think that need to change.

688

: 00:32:12

And I guess that's what I would do

if I were the minister for education.

689

: 00:32:17

Just a reminder, before we finish up,

don't forget if you've enjoyed this.

690

: 00:32:20

Please subscribe to the

anseo.net newsletter, which

691

: 00:32:24

you can find on anseo.net.

692

: 00:32:26

Slash subscribe.

693

: 00:32:28

And you will find every two

weeks, write it to your inbox.

694

: 00:32:31

You'll be reminded of relations, podcast,

episode, some other news stories.

695

: 00:32:35

Add that.

696

: 00:32:36

Meeting having capturing my

imagination on some of those.

697

: 00:32:39

Or up there?

698

: 00:32:39

I don't know.

699

: 00:32:40

I don't really discuss them on

the podcast because I just don't

700

: 00:32:42

have space to be here all day.

701

: 00:32:44

But I'll be talking about a lot of those.

702

: 00:32:46

In bite sizes.

703

: 00:32:48

I also scour my Twitter, my ax to

find some really good tweets and

704

: 00:32:51

add a little threads that have come

out that have been very interesting.

705

: 00:32:54

And as I said, I have a little

bit of CPD for anyone wants it.

706

: 00:32:58

This is a 16 minute video on how to

use AI to create a unit of work, to

707

: 00:33:02

make a chapter of a school textbook.

708

: 00:33:05

And if you subscribe, I'll be

sending you out a template.

709

: 00:33:09

With loads of prompts to create

that chapter of a textbook.

710

: 00:33:12

I know, I hope you enjoyed this

episode of if I were the minister for

711

: 00:33:15

education, I'll be back in a couple

of weeks time with some more news.

712

: 00:33:19

I, no doubt about the Congress,

which would have been and gone

713

: 00:33:22

and whatever else comes from that.

714

: 00:33:24

And I thanks so much for

listening or watching.

715

: 00:33:27

And if, as I said, please feel free

to subscribe or review this podcast

716

: 00:33:31

on what your favorite platform.

717

: 00:33:32

And until next time, see it

add all the best bye-bye.