Episode 2

Education News: 1st half of February 2024

In this latest episode of the podcast 'If I were the Minister for Education', I explore the recent happenings within the Irish primary education system, discussing the aftermath of SET allocations and the implications this had on schools and teachers. The episode also delves into the issue of Irish school buildings being gifted to private religious bodies and assesses the impact of this decision. Finally, I explore why the Scottish see the Irish education system in such a positive light, primarily referring to Ireland's performance in PISA tests. Show notes available on Anseo.net

Transcript
Speaker:

MacBook Pro Microphone & FaceTime HD Camera-7:

Hello?

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Hello.

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You are very welcome to if I

were the minister for education.

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A regular podcast where I explore the

world of the Irish primary education

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system and tell you what I would do

if I were the minister for education.

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This is Simon Lewis here with a trip

around the first half of February.

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In this episode, I will be exploring the

SCT allocations and the aftermath of that.

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I'll be looking at how schools are

being gifted to private bodies and

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why the Scottish think work great.

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But for all the wrong reasons.

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I hope you enjoy this episode.

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And if you do, please

feel free to subscribe.

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By going to anseo.net on

subscribing ties as a podcast,

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or even my regular newsletter,

which I send out every fortnight.

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To tell you all about what's going

on in the world of the Irish primary

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school system and what I would do if

I were the minister for education.

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So let's get on with it on,

see what has been featuring in

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the Irish education system and.

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It's first.

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Is set allocations.

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And for those of you who are

watching this on video, you'll

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probably see a very cross.

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Looking principal, if you haven't.

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If you can't see, and you're just

listing in here, you could be assured

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that principal is looking very

across the deed and with good reason,

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because the set allocations for.

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For those of you who

don't know what they are.

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These were the hours given to schools to

help children with traditionally called

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learning support or resource hours.

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If you're very old, they

might be known as remedial.

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Of course you don't use that

language anymore, but sash stands

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for special education teaching.

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And the allocations are based at

basically every school is allocated

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a certain number of hours per week.

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Which they can use to have a certain

number of teachers to teach the

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entire caseload of children with

additional needs in the school.

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The definition of what special

education at needs at is these days.

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And 2024 has broadened

a lot since this began.

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It used to be just literacy and

numeracy needs, but that's now

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extended to all sorts of needs,

whether they be behavioral needs,

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emotional needs, sometimes care needs.

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Despite that being the job

of special needs assistance.

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And every single need between that.

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And.

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I suppose why our principal here is very

cross is because the allocations this

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year have changed and not for the batter.

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Open till 2017, we had a model where

children were allocated hours, depending

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on the diagnosis, our disability,

they might have if they had autism.

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Or if they would receive five hours

per week of extra tuition or extra

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help, if they had done syndrome,

it was three and a half hours.

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And around 2012, 2013, Ruairi Quinn when

he was minister for education because

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of the recession cut those by 15%.

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And then in 2017, the set allocation

model came about where so weird.

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Strange kind of algorithm, which

nobody quite understands and nobody

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can access because it's protected

from freedom of information requests.

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Was given out to every school.

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And weirdly enough, I don't know

how this formula or this algorithm

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was developed, but almost every

school seemed to get roughly the

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hours they were getting before 2017.

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What an algorithm that it was so

clever to be able to do that based on a

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number of criteria, which included the

child's gender, the children's gender.

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So girls schools weren't getting as many

hours as boys schools are mixed skills.

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You also had complex needs.

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You also had literacy and numeracy

scores, which which was a bit scandalous

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really at the time, it's still the

scandalous because we only started

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sending our standardized test results

he department of education in:

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With the promise that they'd only

be used for statistical purposes.

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And low and behold, they are now.

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Even back then, they were being used

for about some of the allocations

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now in 2024, but they have been used

for about 65% of the allocations.

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I've been given.

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So they're certainly not being

used for statistical purposes.

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And of course there were a couple of other

variables within the allocation model.

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There are including whether you're a

disadvantaged status and things like that.

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But in 2024, so 2017 came along.

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They were reviewed in 2019

reviewed again in:

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And essentially what we

found out over those years.

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I did a bit of research on this as.

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The other is but we found at that

particularly developing skills that

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were being absolutely screwed over

on last week's podcast, explored

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all the statistics around that.

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So you can have a look at this.

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We're moving on now, because since

then the allocations were published and

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they got rid and they caught, this is

again as always there's cuts when it

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comes to special education in Ireland.

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In the guise of, oh, increases, we've

got:

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there's never been any more resource

hours being given to children.

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But in reality, because there are

more children with additional needs.

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It is a cuts by stealth.

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And I guess.

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What really, has annoyed.

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Most people is the area of complex needs

been just simply gone from the allocation.

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So if you have had a school with lots of

children with complex needs you wouldn't

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be getting the hours this time for them.

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So 33% of schools, a third of

schools experienced a cost in

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their allocation this year.

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And this really has caused a lot of

consternation and a number of agencies

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have called have been in touch about this.

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The national principal's forum

were talking about it and they were

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talking about the cluster games.

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And I'll talk about that now in

a second, but a principal here

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in Westmeath, my region is in the

Midlands and it's been without.

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I was a NEPs psychologist

since:

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Our allocation is insufficient

given our school's needs.

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And I feel so frustrated and sorry

for the children and their families

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on a principle in Roscommon next door.

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We're very disappointed that

pupils with complex needs were

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not taken into account in the new

model for calculating allocations.

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And really this a press release

from the national principal's forum

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goes on and on about how awful the

system is ending with Laura Kelly.

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Who's a principal and came to Kilkenny.

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Who wrote a very long sent a statement

or sentence but just to summarize

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it, the list is on ending about this

is about our jobs as principals.

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The list is on ending and you

have to department field it's okay

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to continue to load on roles and

responsibilities to principals.

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I am utterly overwhelmed.

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The job is not sustainable.

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And what Laura was talking about here

was something that has become known as.

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The cluster games, or as I know us.

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I don't really have a name for

it, except I do, except for

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something that's a bit rude.

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Eh, Basically.

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I shit show.

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What it is if you can imagine

every principal is a pigeon.

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And the department of education

has tossed out a few breadcrumbs.

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Basically when the SET allocation.

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Ours come out.

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Principals have to fight over

the hours to make up clusters.

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Okay.

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Clusters of 25 hours

to make up a full post.

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So if you're a school with 20 spare

hours, I allocated, you're desperate

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looking for another school with

five hours to make a marriage.

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And the trouble is with this model

and why I call it a shit show

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rather than the cluster games.

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Although the cluster gain is

a very good analysis because

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it is a death match really.

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Is that every school that goes into this,

it's trying to save a teacher, trying to

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save a teacher from the dreaded panel.

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And the dreaded panel is basically

a safeguard for any permanent

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teacher who might lose their

job due to falling numbers.

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And they get put on a panel so

they can have a permanent job in a

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school close by apple principals.

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Really don't like losing

teachers to the panel.

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There's lots and lots of reasons

why they say this is true.

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They say that they put it

invest a lot of training.

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They invest a lot into relationships.

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The person who's there builds up a big

relationship with the children and to

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lose that person can be a travesty.

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If they become a minor player,

let's say in the marriage, but what.

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Th the impact.

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Of principals basically fighting over

these breadcrumbs in a desperate bid

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to become the base school is that they

will kill each other and they will

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fight with each other and they will fall

out with each other over these hours.

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And.

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Really it's it just doesn't work

where you have:

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over a small amount of resources

with no no way of making it work.

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W I developed but I didn't develop at all.

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A teacher developed with that

with a bit of help for me.

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A set cluster guy ag tool, which allows

schools to log in and try and find

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other skills that might match with them.

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But to be perfectly honest at

the What it works really well.

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To a point it relies on Goodwill

from principals and I've argued.

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In one of my blog posts, which

I, if you want to read at, you'll

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find it in the show notes at that.

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I don't think principals really,

I think what principals do is they

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leave their principles behind they

are not very kind to each other.

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It's a real example of the lack

of collegiality within the system.

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The sat allocation hours and pigeon show.

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Is really shows me the lack of

collegiality within our profession.

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And I understand why, but I understand

the system is designed to do this, but any

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calls or any ideas that we are collegial

with each other are absolutely on.

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True.

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I was I've spoken to, I would say

I've spoken to dozens of principals

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in the last couple of weeks and

some of them quite upset because.

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One in particular is a principal

who in, in some other parts of the

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country, I won't say where it is.

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It's not fair.

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Just in case I don't want to identify

them, but basically they were just assumed

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that their local, their neighboring

schools would form a cluster when.

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When they looked at the list

of schools, the schools within

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her area, they're small schools

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The three of them matched exactly the 25 hours.

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The person waited after the

bank holiday to contact them.

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And when she rang them, I've given

away their gender there when she

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rang and said, oh no, we're sorted.

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We got sorted over the bank, holiday

laughter high and dry, but that's

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the kind of stuff that's going on.

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And I find it I find it horrible

and I don't like it and I don't

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think we should be engaging in it.

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I think the department of education should

be dealing with all this sort of stuff.

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I did write a blog post called

spilling the tea on sat allocations,

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a guide for disillusioned principals.

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The idea of that a while as if

you were still looking for hours

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and there are still, and this is

we're going to the third week here.

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There's still a lot of principals

as still looking for hours,

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looking for the scavenger hunts.

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And I shared the app that

was done by a dark onion.

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Who's the person who made the tool.

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And you can have a look at that.

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And I've given some ideas of what you

can possibly do because when you've

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been really screwed over by your

neighbors or by your other by other

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principals who just go off and do.

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Their own thing.

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I just think, This these little

tips here might help you.

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One of them is do nothing.

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Just let the departments

sort out your problem.

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I think after, I think if you've

made a good stab of it, you

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need to let the department of

education sort your problems.

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And they do and they

can't, and I've done it.

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And it really does work out.

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You may end up with a part-time teacher.

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You may even end up finding

a cluster somewhere dot.

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That might work for you that you

didn't realize, but it will work out.

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And my advisory was, when you

finished hazing, you're out.

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You're a fan of your fellow principals

and getting I'm getting over the.dot of

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the disillusionment of this whole thing.

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You might just consider do, accepting

the fact that this is an awful thing.

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Maybe joining me in my request.

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To principals to stop

engaging in this nonsense.

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To be honest.

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I don't think people are going to, the

other thing that's come out of this.

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As I said, was the allocation model.

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Losing the cluster hours.

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And a few statements came out about

dash the national principal's forum.

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As I said, came out criticizing the

fact that they've cooked complex needs.

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Which has made lots of 33% of schools

lose a significant amount of hours.

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The charity inclusion Ireland has

also sat there absolutely disturbed

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by the fact that this has happened.

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And I also was in the newspaper,

the Irish examiner at the, by the

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allocation of special education

teachers, which is wholly inadequate.

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In my view.

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So really a lot of news and

special education teaching world.

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I'm I have to say it's been an absolute

shambles and it still remains an

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absolute shambles and very upsetting for

principals around the country who just.

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Couldn't find a partner.

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And the people that are most

disadvantaged, this are inexperienced

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principals, new principals

who haven't built up these

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networks, who CA who aren't, who

actually trust the system still.

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To be fair, a nice and good.

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And obviously the other people you feel

very sorry for, and most importantly,

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a one should say are the children

who are basically getting fewer

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resources for their increasing needs.

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And it really.

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As a shambles.

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And I think I've ranted enough

about dash I've in the newsletter.

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I've linked several articles

around the sat allocations

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and the criticism around it.

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I have yet to meet a school.

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That's happy with the allocations.

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Let's move on and see

where we're going next.

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We're moving on.

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To something called gifting schools.

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What though?

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And.

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Here it is how much money is being gifted

to religious bodies by the Irish state.

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I don't know.

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Many people who listen to this.

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Ah, no, that I am someone who

believes there should be a complete

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separation of church and state.

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The reason I believe that as many

people know is because when the,

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when a private body runs a school,

whether that's a religious body or

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not religious body their ethos has to

permeate throughout the school day.

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On the impact of that in 90% and actually

96% of cases is that is a religious ethos.

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And in 90% of cases,

it's the Catholic church.

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And in 5% of cases, it's

the church of origin.

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So there's a Christian ethos in about

95 to 96% of schools, which means that

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throughout the day of every school

day, Jesus is in the room with you.

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And some of you might not think that's

a bad thing, but for someone who does

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not worship Jesus, It's entirely.

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at best inconvenient and maybe.

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Just annoying really that every, so every.

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It feels every five minutes.

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You're having to worship someone

that you don't believe in.

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You don't believe, you

don't believe his message.

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And I suppose if you're a teacher

in these skills, you probably might

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not believe in God yourself yet.

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You're expected to be a missionary.

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And if you don't.

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If you're not a missionary for the

Catholic church, because you are a

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missionary, when you work in a Catholic

primary school or in a church of

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Ireland school or any religious school.

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You have to impart the word of

your religion onto the children.

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It's part.

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If you're in a Catholic school,

you must pass on the word of Jesus.

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And I know a lot of the Catholic.

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People out there, the people who

represented Catholic buddies say

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no, we're only inviting the children

to take part in the Catholic faith.

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I don't want an invitation.

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I'm not, and children, aren't looking

for an invitation to the Catholic faith.

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If their parents are not

raising them as conflicts.

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And it's really not, it's not okay

to be inviting people who aren't

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Catholic into the Catholic faith.

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It's I just can't.

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It's, I can't think of an analogy, but.

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Because it's such a bizarre thing.

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Why would anyone think it's okay.

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To try and try and converse

children in a public school.

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It just, it makes no sense.

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People probably don't see it that

way because it's so normalized.

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99.7% of teachers in Ireland, outside.

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That's all you often

say are white and Irish.

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And those that are at 95%

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of them are Christian.

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So a lot of this stuff is invisible.

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To add these people who don't

think they're being missionary.

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Sure.

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It's only a few prayers

insured, what harm and sure.

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We're very inclusive.

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We allow children into the school.

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Don't we end sure.

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If they're sitting at the back of the

class, what are, and all that kind of

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nonsense that go on now, the Catholic

church have survived a huge amount.

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I would suggest.

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For example, the big one really

they've survived systematic sexual

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abuse of children, and they're

still allowed to run schools.

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And I have nerdy given up on

thinking, how can we, and I'm not.

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I've nothing against Catholics at all.

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If people celebrate their faith

in any way, shape or form,

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that's absolutely up to them.

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And I have no problem with people's

celebration of faith of any sort,

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but I don't think the institution of

the church should be running schools.

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Forget the sexual abuse because it's

so emotive and people will excuse

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it and all sorts of different ways.

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But this is something that I came

across that I thought was just amazing.

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How much that demote of money that's being

gifted by the state to religious bodies.

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And in this article where I basically

did a freedom of information request.

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Finding out how much money does

the state spend on capital school

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projects, a building school buildings,

they build the schools and then they

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basically give the building to the

Catholic church or the church body.

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Four with few conditions.

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Certainly no conditions that No,

no conditions have any merit.

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I actually asked what were the conditions?

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For a hunting it over as if there'd

be something, interesting, but

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they're all just building relations.

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They're construction related.

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They can do whatever

they like and they do.

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What they like is they

use them as missionaries.

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They use them as someone we'll

call them indoctrination centers

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if they wanted to be emotive.

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But I would say their faith forming

institutions, which they are, of course,

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the idea of a Catholic school and the

only difference between a Catholic

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school and a school that is not conflict

is the form of forming of faith.

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So if you go to a Jewish

school, The idea would be dirt.

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That you would be for after you would

have faith formation in the Jewish faith.

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And the difference between that

and a Catholic school is you'd have

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faith formation and a Catholic faith.

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So like that's the only difference.

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Everything else is the same, but for

whatever reason, despite, and I mentioned

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the national maternity hospital in

the, in this article, because if you

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look back to the national maternity

hospital scandal I guess basically the

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department or the state wants to build

a new maternity hospital and they were

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going to build them on the grounds of St.

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Vincent's hospital, which is

owned by the sisters of charity.

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And the idea was that they

were build this sad hospital.

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I think it was going

to cost 2 billion Euro.

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Although I could be wrong on that figure.

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Once that happens, they're going to

effectively give the building to the nuns

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on a lease basis so that they would pay a

nominal fee every year after the building.

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But at the end of the lease, the

building will belong to the nuns and

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this made people really cross And people

houses of people took to the streets.

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About it because they were afraid

and they were about this arrangement.

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I didn't really, I don't know

if they minded the money.

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I think they did a bit, but they

had what they said was the con.

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There were concerns about possible

external interference in the operation

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of the hospital, because you would

think they would look at schools and

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say, but, because school buildings

are gifted back to the state and

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religious interference certainly

happens, but that wasn't their thing.

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They just, I think to be honest with you,

I think they have a problem with the nuns.

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And if I think they were hunting

the priests, I don't know

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how many people were being.

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I wish I was.

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I think Ireland has a very odd

relationship with the Catholic

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church in terms of, they seem to

really dislike nuns in particular.

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And I don't know why that is,

and maybe I'm wrong on that.

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But there was a big thing about it,

if you see some of the posters in

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the article I've linked to in the

thing, there's lots of signs that

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are very disparaging about nuns.

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That you probably wouldn't see if it was

generally about the Catholic church, but.

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I don't know.

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I don't know.

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It's a bit.

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It's a bit mad, but what I think about

whenever I see a school being built

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:

is I just think there's another few

million Euro gone to the Vatican.

384

:

And essentially.

385

:

That's what happens?

386

:

The building.

387

:

Th when the department of education

build a building on the school land.

388

:

The state don't own the.

389

:

A school.

390

:

It is gifted to the diocese.

391

:

Which is a bit mad in my estimation.

392

:

So I wanted to find out how much it

was and the figure is roughly 500

393

:

million Euro in the last five years.

394

:

So every year it's about a hundred million

year old average that is just gifted in

395

:

buildings to the, to religious bodies.

396

:

People might say to me, oh

what about educate together?

397

:

And what about the other man?

398

:

They don't own any of the buildings.

399

:

It's only church bodies,

that own buildings.

400

:

And also, I suppose I didn't include like

the capitation grant that's given to keep,

401

:

not only did the department of education.

402

:

Sorry.

403

:

Give the buildings over.

404

:

They also add heat them and light them.

405

:

I keep them on upkeep them.

406

:

I it's bizarre.

407

:

It's like someone building

me a building a house.

408

:

Okay.

409

:

So a builder builds a house.

410

:

I say I'd like to live there.

411

:

And they said, okay, here you go.

412

:

There's a house for free.

413

:

And I go, thank you very much.

414

:

That's great.

415

:

I can you just pass me on

the ESB there so I can pay?

416

:

Oh no.

417

:

You don't have to pay any

of the bills in that house.

418

:

We're paying them for you.

419

:

Ah, okay.

420

:

Okay.

421

:

And do I have to do anything?

422

:

Oh no you don't have to do

anything at all, actually.

423

:

In fact if you have a religious

belief, you can insist that anyone

424

:

that comes into your house must pray.

425

:

Ah, okay.

426

:

I, that sounds great.

427

:

And and what happens.

428

:

If I decide.

429

:

That I want to leave my

house and go somewhere else.

430

:

I asked don't don't don't worry.

431

:

Simon.

432

:

We will rent.

433

:

We will pay rent to you for that.

434

:

That's what happens.

435

:

It's really weird.

436

:

And I can understand it.

437

:

Madly enough I put this

out online madly enough.

438

:

People were defending it, like

defending it, like I'm calling me a

439

:

bigot because I was questioning it.

440

:

If I wasn't, I really regret not saying

like the state was funding McDonald's in

441

:

the same way, because there was a film

there about McDonald's how they became.

442

:

Hi, they became but they bought all

the land are at where the restaurants

443

:

are being built and then just

basically cleaned the restaurants.

444

:

It was very, it was a really

good film if you haven't seen,

445

:

I can't think of the name of it.

446

:

But it's essentially the same model.

447

:

I wish I really wish I had a van

started that whole thing saying,

448

:

oh my gosh, can you believe it?

449

:

That.

450

:

The state is basically funding

McDonald's ration there, but

451

:

building McDonald's restaurants and

gifting the building to McDonald's.

452

:

But anyway, I didn't.

453

:

Ah, how do I have.

454

:

I am assuming the people that would

have been very upset about it, but

455

:

because it's the Catholic church.

456

:

People seem to keep, take

that very differently.

457

:

MacBook Pro Microphone & FaceTime HD Camera-10:

I tried to explain.

458

:

On Twitter, because I was getting

the same questions over and over

459

:

again, and being called anti this

anti that and all the rest of us.

460

:

And, I came to the conclusion.

461

:

That.

462

:

I probably can't, I'm not going to

get through to people on this one.

463

:

I'm not going to succeed.

464

:

I feel.

465

:

And I could be, I don't think I'm

wrong on this, that there's this sort

466

:

of cognitive dissonance for most Irish

people when it comes to the Catholic

467

:

church, I always give the example of

Sean Moncrief, who wrote an article

468

:

in the Irish times about how he ticked

no religion in the census box, but.

469

:

He is going to allow his

daughter make her communion.

470

:

And his reasoning was because he isn't

anti-Catholic as if that's the only reason

471

:

children wouldn't make their communion.

472

:

I also, gave other examples.

473

:

I, and I'm one of them was, I'm

not gonna mention his name because.

474

:

But I basically mentioned

this other politician.

475

:

Who basically was at the protest at the

national maternity hospital and talk.

476

:

And he spoke quite publicly about

how his, how he doesn't want

477

:

us, how his daughter was born.

478

:

On the, on a referendum day.

479

:

I think it was the the

abortion referendum and how he.

480

:

He was talking about it, like how

he'd hope that she sees a world

481

:

of a quality of away from the

interference of, the Catholic church

482

:

and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

483

:

And then, and then in the same

article wrote about how he sends

484

:

her to a Catholic school because,

I can't even remember the excuse.

485

:

And anyway, I pointed that one

out as well, and he actually.

486

:

It's very bizarre.

487

:

He actually messaged me then calling

me disgraceful and disgusting,

488

:

and then started slacking me off

because I pay for my Twitter account.

489

:

I felt like I was a 15 year old in school

and the schoolyard bully was Coming on to,

490

:

it's not the first step marred interaction

of how this particular politician.

491

:

I certainly have questioned him

on a number of occasions and

492

:

not so much so that, I suppose

I was probably became annoying.

493

:

So he blocked me on

Twitter because I kept.

494

:

Annoying him over a thing he

did when he was in government.

495

:

And I was never abusive.

496

:

I just kept pointing out the fact

that when he was giving Asia bites,

497

:

It's something he could have actually

solved the problem when he was in

498

:

government and didn't and chose not to.

499

:

And the reason he didn't add do

it wasn't because he couldn't.

500

:

It was for another reason under.

501

:

Getting more and more tempted

to reveal the reason why.

502

:

As time goes on and as nasty as he's

being I can't, I have to admit,

503

:

I lost a little bit of sleep over

it because I felt intimidated.

504

:

By him.

505

:

Anyway, he owned, blocked

me for 10 minutes to hurl.

506

:

Mad stuff at me and then consequently,

block me on anyway, God, at

507

:

times I sound like I'm in school.

508

:

It's so immature.

509

:

I sometimes I find.

510

:

Social media, it can infantalise you

a little bit when you're trying to

511

:

make adult conversations, you end

up, having people throw childish.

512

:

Nonsense at you.

513

:

Anyway, enough about my spots with TDS,

let's move on to the final story, which

514

:

I love, and this is a brilliant one.

515

:

It's why Scottish people

think we're a great.

516

:

I found add a story.

517

:

It wasn't a Scottish newspaper.

518

:

Why are Irish kids so far

ahead of Scottish pupils?

519

:

It's in this.

520

:

At P and J I think, which is a

Scottish news website of the year.

521

:

MacBook Pro Microphone & FaceTime HD Camera-11:

This is a great story.

522

:

I love it.

523

:

It makes me remember like the obsession

with Finland that we all had for a

524

:

number of years, I suppose we still do.

525

:

We have a lot to learn from the fins,

but we have a lot to learn from lots of

526

:

other countries as well, but the Scots

are basically looking at why Irish kids

527

:

are so far ahead of Scottish peoples.

528

:

And they're focusing entirely

on the PISA scores because.

529

:

I don't know how we do it, and I'd

love to know the secret myself.

530

:

We seem to perform

really well in the Piza.

531

:

Tables, despite the huge

underinvestment in the education system.

532

:

So this journalist.

533

:

Ah, try to find out what that

reason was and do you know what

534

:

he did rather than, Asking.

535

:

Maybe people in the Irish education

system, I thought he might go

536

:

to the minister for education

or spokesperson New York.

537

:

No.

538

:

Instead what he did is he found

Irish people living in Scotland

539

:

and ask them their parents

they're not educators or anything.

540

:

I thought maybe they are educators.

541

:

I don't think they were though.

542

:

But they go on anyway.

543

:

She starts off by saying how great

we are at rugby compared to Scotland.

544

:

And that's another question that could

be asked, why are we so good at rugby?

545

:

For such a small country.

546

:

And I suppose you could, might

look at the education system

547

:

in a different way for that.

548

:

But let's stick to the script here.

549

:

Jeez.

550

:

I'm here.

551

:

Almost analyzing rugby.

552

:

I don't think I could

name two rugby players.

553

:

If you asked me, I'd say my

rugby knowledge is only dwarfed

554

:

by my lack of knowledge on GAA.

555

:

Anyway, let's see what

Scottish people think about.

556

:

The Irish education system one pro.

557

:

One person decided that teachers are much

more respected than Scottish teachers.

558

:

Now.

559

:

If you look at any headlines in the

newspapers over the last few years,

560

:

you will find that I would say that

is probably not true and probably

561

:

not why we do so well on PISA scores.

562

:

So an interesting us.

563

:

And last assessment.

564

:

I do think that is true.

565

:

We do have less assessment, but

so do the fins and so do quite a

566

:

lot of highly regarded countries.

567

:

And maybe maybe that's

maybe I'll give her one.

568

:

It's a point for that?

569

:

I think that's fair enough.

570

:

I thought one of the centers that

wasn't very fair here, teachers are

571

:

not respecting the same in Scotland.

572

:

Therefore, very capable students.

573

:

Don't go into teaching.

574

:

That's I don't know.

575

:

It's a bit harsh to say.

576

:

I think there's still a lot of people that

wants to go into, I think teaching is a

577

:

respected profession, even in Scotland

and Ireland, I'd say it's much respected.

578

:

Maybe.

579

:

I don't know.

580

:

They think anyway that the whole

system has gotten, it has to change.

581

:

At, but this is the one that

I thought was interesting.

582

:

It was their parents.

583

:

Parents.

584

:

Basically.

585

:

I take the responsibility

for the child's education.

586

:

Do you know that now there's

two ways of looking at that.

587

:

The first way is in the constitution,

parents have a right to choose whatever

588

:

school they want to send their child to.

589

:

And they are the first education now.

590

:

I don't really think.

591

:

That in, in the practice makes it

very much of a difference to anyone.

592

:

I think.

593

:

All that does is the complicates.

594

:

Our education system actually

makes our education system work.

595

:

I think.

596

:

We could have an even

better education system.

597

:

If we didn't have the system we

have, which is so fractured as

598

:

we've seen from the sat allocation

model and things like that.

599

:

And I actually think our, I think we're

good to find yourselves going down the

600

:

piece of tables because of the way.

601

:

We're treating children with additional

needs and the way we're treating.

602

:

Migrants the way we're treating we

w I suppose, as we become a less

603

:

homogenous society and we become, we are.

604

:

The last module Sashi for quite some time.

605

:

But as we've calmed it even

less and less homogenous.

606

:

I can see by doing nothing by

treating our migrants and by

607

:

teaching our children traditional.

608

:

And needs with contempt.

609

:

I would say.

610

:

I think we're going to find

yourself slipping down bus.

611

:

They basically say it's all about higher

support, high respect for teachers.

612

:

I just, I don't get that.

613

:

I don't think so.

614

:

I, the other thing, which

I thought was bizarre.

615

:

Ah, I'm probably the funniest of the

mall was we've had a taste of prosperity.

616

:

The Irish people, we had the Celtic tiger.

617

:

So we know what it's like to get

a good education there for, to

618

:

be rich as the rules of a tour.

619

:

Then another Celtic tiger has passed.

620

:

Where we will continue to aspire to VIG

at, to be back to those consequences.

621

:

So basically education equals money.

622

:

It's a bizarre kind of conclusion.

623

:

I don't know where it's.

624

:

They said we had a taste of the

money and suddenly we're in a bit

625

:

of a decline and the bubble burst.

626

:

But in Ireland because we've had

a taste of what life could be.

627

:

Kids are more driven to succeed.

628

:

Now.

629

:

I don't know.

630

:

How much of this is true.

631

:

In fact, I don't think any

of us really true at all.

632

:

I honestly don't know why Ireland is the.

633

:

I think I tell you I'll

make my educated guess.

634

:

As to why Ireland.

635

:

Has is highly performing

the piece of results.

636

:

And I think it's actually

because of our autonomy.

637

:

I think we trust our teachers and

I think whether we respect them

638

:

or not, I think we trust them.

639

:

We trusted they're doing a good job.

640

:

I also think that we, I don't know, I'll

tell you this in a negative way, even

641

:

though it's going to sound negative.

642

:

I think we over teach literacy.

643

:

At particularly, we also, I don't

know if we over teach numeracy,

644

:

but we over teach them literacy.

645

:

To a point that and reteach it in

such a way that suits the PISA tests.

646

:

I don't think I think if we taught in a

different way, we might score lower in

647

:

the PISA scores, but we might actually,

pieces of limited sort of AB test.

648

:

I think.

649

:

When you see who's number one in there.

650

:

And that's one of the

Korean career in Republic.

651

:

I think isn't Brunner is it's

Singapore, but it's definitely a

652

:

country where you wouldn't want

an education system like that.

653

:

Where you have 30 plus children

crammed into a room and cram

654

:

teaching them all the time.

655

:

They're the schools that

are succeeding the most.

656

:

And I don't know, I prefer to

have a system that succeeds

657

:

for different reasons.

658

:

I think maybe we're good at

relationships and naturally.

659

:

Maybe that's something that we're,

we bring into our schools, but look.

660

:

I'm as bad as these parents in

this article, making these gases.

661

:

Rady and I suppose what I should be

doing is leaving them to the experts.

662

:

Both.

663

:

As I said, I think.

664

:

It's great.

665

:

They think we're gracious.

666

:

I have a taste of what people in Finland

must feel when the Irish were going

667

:

over saying my goodness, what's it

like to be a teacher in Finland while

668

:

the Scottish wants to learn from us.

669

:

And they're very welcome to come

over here, but they'll have to

670

:

get back into the EU so they

can do those Erasmus things.

671

:

What a pity Brexit, ah, Happened for them.

672

:

Anyway that are there, the three

things I, as three stories I

673

:

wanted to bring to your attention.

674

:

The sat allocations, gifting schools to

the various church bodies and why the

675

:

Scottish people think we're a great.

676

:

If you are interested in reading.

677

:

More of my thoughts.

678

:

I, you should subscribe to my newsletter.

679

:

And you can do that by going

to anseo.net/subscribe.

680

:

This podcast as well is available on

all your favorite podcasting platforms.

681

:

And I would love to hear your thoughts

and you can contact me at Simon out

682

:

of Shots on Nash or if you're on

Twitter still, I think there are

683

:

people are leaving their droves I'm

I probably will too, at some point.

684

:

If if you do, I'm still there anyway, and

you can DM me and I'd be happy to charge,

685

:

or you can join in the conversation if

you wish that's it for me for this week.

686

:

Thanks so much for listening.

687

:

I'll be back again in a couple

of weeks with more news up from

688

:

the Irish education system.

689

:

And look forward to talking to you

then all the very best bye-bye.

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An Irish Primary Education Podcast

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Simon Lewis